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Jack Mitchell and The Stycks

PAUL HECKMANN — Sun, 30 Nov 2025 21:51:13 +0000

Jack Mitchell – Drummer for Stycks, Texas Rose & Lynx

By Paul Heckmann, Executive Director, Memories Inc.

Jack on drums for the Stycks at Louann’s 1970, courtesy Jack Mitchell

Early Years

Jack Mitchell began drumming at R.L. Turner High School with a local band called The Royals. The experience set the stage for a lifelong musical career.

Joining The Stycks

The Stycks formed around 1966–67. Jack joined a bit later, replacing drummer Jay Taylor of the Taylor Publishing family.

Life Inside the Studio Club

Owned by the future founder of Chili’s, Larry Lavine, the Studio Club was a legendary rehearsal spot for Dallas-area musicians.

Jack recalls practicing alongside Don Henley and Glenn Frey when they were still part of Felicity—before heading to L.A. and helping form the Eagles.

Louann’s: A Dallas Icon

The Stycks at Louann’s in 1969, courtesy Jack Mitchell

Jack and The Stycks became regular performers at Louann’s, booked through Showco. Their gigs included opening for:

Zephyr
Steve Miller Band at McFarlin Auditorium
Sonny & Cher (University of Oklahoma & Texas Tech)

Jack remembers discovering boxes of tickets from Louann’s shows dating back to the 1940s. However since then they have been lost to history.

Auditioning Stevie Ray Vaughan

As a favor to Jimmie Vaughan, The Stycks auditioned a young Stevie Ray Vaughan.

Jack recognized SRV’s natural talent immediately, though his wild style didn’t yet match the band’s needs.
A few years later, Stevie reappeared onstage with the band Blackbird, leaving the band stunned at his growth.

The 1971 Louann’s Fire

On April 1st, 1971, Louann’s burned to the ground in a three-alarm fire.
The band’s equipment—left overnight in the club—was completely destroyed.

With their insurance recently dropped, the loss was total.
But with a gig scheduled for that same night, the band scrambled to replace everything, with help from Arnold & Morgan Music. Jack “They really helped us out a lot. We had a gig that night and we made it thanks to Arnold and Morgan.”

Larry Lavine, Louann’s, and… Chili’s

Lavine rebuilt Louann’s in a new location and kept the band employed.

Jack remembers Lavine telling him about a new idea for a burger place: Chili’s. No word on if he made it work of not.

The End of The Stycks

With members drifting away, the band retired the name and re-formed as Texas Rose, going through several iterations.

Jack later performed with Lynx, eventually opening for the other Stycks band, the legendary Styx.

Life Today

Jack retired from retail after serving as electronics manager at Walmart.
He now spends his days with his wife, 14 cats, and 3 dogs—“half my day cleaning cat poop.”

Closing

Paul: Thanks so much, Jack. Love the story on Larry Lavine and a young Stevie Ray. These were fantastic stories—it’s been a blast!

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Thomas “Hollywood” Henderson

PAUL HECKMANN — Sun, 26 Oct 2025 19:24:01 +0000

From Gridiron Glory to Redemption’s Field:

The Unfiltered Saga of Thomas Henderson

In the annals of NFL folklore, few figures embody the highs of stardom and the lows of self-destruction quite like Thomas Henderson. Once dubbed “Hollywood” for his flashy fur coats, limo arrivals, and unapologetic bravado, the former Dallas Cowboys linebacker now prefers plain old Thomas—a name that reflects his hard-won humility.

At 72, Henderson is a two-time lottery winner, a Super Bowl champion, and, most importantly, a 42-year sober advocate who’s turned his life’s chaos into a blueprint for recovery. Drawing from an exclusive interview with Paul Heckmann of Memories Incorporated, along with insights from ESPN’s Outside the Lines, the Austin American-Statesman, HBCU Legends Podcast, and a candid 2016 Q&A with the Statesman, Henderson’s story unfolds like a Hollywood script—minus the fairy-tale ending, plus a lot of real grit.

Poverty’s Playground: Austin Roots and a Thug’s Edge

A young Thomas Henderson. Courtesy Thomas Henderson

Born in Austin, Texas, in 1953 to a mother just 21 days shy of 16—who fled an abortionist to bring him into the world—Henderson’s childhood was a masterclass in resilience amid ruin. “We were toilet-paper poor,” he recalls, describing a lean-to shack where the bathtub doubled as a laundry hamper and necessities like TP were luxuries. “If you saw 60 rolls in my garage today, you’d know exactly where it came from.” Yet, love and discipline anchored him. Enrolled at age three in a Montessori program on the University of Texas campus (thanks to his mom’s job there), he mixed with diverse kids early on. “I didn’t see color anyway,” he says.

School life at LL Campbell Elementary propelled him into the top 10%, landing him at University Junior High in 1966—a pivotal moment in Austin’s integration. “I was 13, meeting Mexicans and white people for the first time,” he told Heckmann. Football kicked off at UJH and Kealing Junior High, then Anderson High as a tailback on the B team. But poverty’s toll—nights without basics and a friend’s fatal shooting—drove him to Oklahoma City at 16 to live with his grandmother. “I gotta get out of here,” he decided after one too many hardships.

High School Hustle: From Filming Games to Defensive Dominance

Thomas and a friend at Langston University, courtesy Thomas Henderson

At Douglas High in Oklahoma City, transfer rules sidelined him junior year. “I remember crying because I wanted to play so badly,” he shared in the 2016 Statesman interview. Instead, he filmed games, played basketball, and worked nights at the post office—loading trucks, Spiegel catalogs, and even driving 18-wheelers unlicensed. “I loved my job; it got me a car, payments, insurance.” He also became a certified welder.

Senior year, a growth spurt to 6’2″, 210 pounds sealed his fate. Coach Donald Burns eyed him: “What position do you play?” “Quarterback,” Henderson replied. One wobbly post-route pass later—”the ugliest duck you’d ever seen”—and he was a defensive end. All-City, All-District honors followed in that single season. A flunked geometry class delayed graduation but saved him from Vietnam, shifting his draft status from 1A to 1S. “That’s the only thing that kept me from going,” he marvels.

Thomas makes the Little All America Football Team. Courtesy Black College Hall of Fame and Thomas Henderson

Air Force pilot dreams fizzled after a Wichita State plane crash wiped out their team. Rejected by them, a buddy suggested Langston University, an HBCU. Hitchhiking there post-car wreck, Henderson walked on. Day two: The starter broke an ankle. “I had four sacks, 12 tackles against Kentucky State—and he never got his job back.” Never on scholarship (financial aid sufficed, given his mom’s maid wages), he became a two-time NAIA All-American. In a 2022 HBCU Legends Podcast, he credited Black scouts like Tank Younger: “They took the time to come to Langston.” Barry Switzer overlooked him at Oklahoma, a snub Henderson ribs him about: “In 1975, OU won the national title; Langston went 1-9. But I was the first Oklahoman drafted.”

Draft Day Drama: Entering the Cowboys’ Spotlight

The 1975 NFL Draft’s “Dirty Dozen” class was legendary—12 rookies, including Randy White, Bob Breunig, and Ed “Too Tall” Jones, made the Cowboys. Despite Tom Landry’s reluctance on HBCU picks, scouts Gil Brandt and Red Hickey insisted: “He’s the best on the board.” Drafted 18th overall, Henderson got the call in a remote farmhouse: “No watch party, just ‘Can you get to the airport?'”

“The Dirty Dozen” 1975 Dallas Cowboy rookie class, courtesy Thomas Henderson Facebook page

Hollywood As a rookie, he dazzled, returning a 97-yard kickoff TD against the Cardinals—the first to dunk over the goalpost. By 1977, he started in the Doomsday Defense with Breunig and D.D. Lewis, topping the league two years running. “We played some good ball,” he says. Off-field, “Hollywood” emerged after Robert Newhouse teased him for a limo-and-fur-coat entrance. “It was either ‘Damn Fool’ or ‘Hollywood’—I went with the latter.”

Closest pals? “Too Tall Jones and Roger Staubach—they were with me through good and bad.” Jones, his roommate, was “a real hoot” off-field; Staubach later regretted not defending him against Landry and loaned $55,000 for real estate (which Henderson repaid—the only borrower to do so, per Staubach). In ESPN’s profile, Henderson owned Dallas nightlife: orgies, clubs like Plush Pup and Playmakers Plaza (where he out-earned his Cowboys salary). He

Wyetta Henderson, then Thomas’s wife. Photo courtesy Internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

judged Playboy Bunny searches, dated Bunny Wyetta Boswell (sabotaging a rival girlfriend’s chances), had a child with Wyetta and trash-talked Terry Bradshaw before Super Bowl XIII: “He couldn’t spell ‘cat’ if you spotted him the C and A.” (Fed by Brandt, he later apologized in 2000: “I wanted to make amends.”)

Favorite Super Bowl moments? The 1976 reverse kickoff return cracking Roy Gerela’s ribs (“I’d have scored if Randy Hughes blocked”) and leading tackles in the 1978 Broncos rout (“They had eight turnovers—we crushed them”). He even stonewalled Earl Campbell on a goal-line play: “I hit him hard, knocked him back.” Years later, Campbell admitted: “Damn, you were coming fast.”

The Fall: Addiction’s Grip and Landry’s Clash

Thomas in his full length fur. Only Thomas could pull this off. Courtesy Thomas

Beneath the glamour, cocaine ravaged him. “A lot,” he admits, hiding it in Vicks inhalers after burning a septal hole (requiring 1981 surgery). “I snorted during the Super Bowl,” he confessed to ESPN. Tensions with Landry simmered from day one: Beard battles, shoestring ties, knotty rebellions. “What does my beard have to do with football?” he challenged. Yet Landry coached him uniquely, once conceding in a meeting: “I don’t like you doing this, but I’m gonna let you.”

Thomas in his Cowboy boot. Photo courtesy Texas Monthly

1979 imploded: Hepatitis B hospitalized him, dropping weight to 195; a hiatal hernia followed. Landry’s ultimatum—”Miss practice, don’t start”—clashed with a flu sending him home. Bench threat sparked confrontation: “If I don’t start, I’m not playing.” Waived mid-season (ironically, after mugging for cameras with Preston Pearson’s handkerchief—Pearson never defended him), Henderson quit rather than join San Francisco.

Brief stints with the 49ers (cut amid crack use), Oilers (hated for his Cowboys ties), and Dolphins ended with a 1981 broken neck: “Cervical vertebrae 1 burst—I should’ve died or been paralyzed.” A prehistoric body cast for six months left him “smelling like a Billy goat.”

Rock bottom: 1983 blackout led to sexual assault charges during a crack binge. “I embarrassed my family—completely out of character,” he says, blaming 151 rum blackouts. After bail, more drugs; a lawyer dragged him to CARE Unit in Orange, California. Seven months later, 28 months in prison (resisting temptations inside). Sober since November 8, 1983—42 years now—he credits God: “I learned to do life differently.”

Redemption and Legacy: Lottery Luck, Philanthropy, and Paying It Forward

Thomas’ book “Out of Control” available and Courtesy of Amazon, click on the photo for a direct link to purchase

Post-prison, Henderson rebuilt. In his 1987 book Out of Control, he spared teammates’ secrets: “I didn’t snitch.” Reconciliation with Landry came via letters; the coach spoke at his 1993 10-year sobriety bash (1,000 attendees, including Staubach). A funny moment: Landry greeting with “Wassup?” left Henderson in stitches.

Thomas and the author Paul Heckmann at Thomas’ condo in Costa Mesa, California in 1989. Courtesy Paul Heckmann

In 2000, a $28 million Texas Lotto win—”that would’ve come with a coffin earlier”—funded stability. “I still have some; life is good.” A two-time winner, he considers sobriety his true luck. As founder of East Side Youth Services and Street Outreach, he built a stadium with an eight-lane track for East Austin kids. He speaks frankly to students: “I share my mistakes.”

Thomas displays his Lotto Texas $28 million winning ticket Friday, March 24, 2000 in Austin. He spent $100 Wednesday, allowing the computer to pick the lucky numbers: 5, 8, 17, 35, 38 and 41.

Honors abound: Selected to the all-HBCU Super Bowl first team for Black History Month, alongside legends like Willie Lanier and Too Tall Jones. “The nicest thing the NFL let me be part of.” He gifted Douglas High a gold football, tributing Coach Burns (whose eulogy he delivered comically, retelling the quarterback flop).

A documentary looms. As he told the Statesman in 2016 (echoing today): “I re-created myself—honest, telling the story.” From thug to champ to survivor, Henderson’s no longer Hollywood. He’s proof second chances aren’t scripted—they’re earned.

Roger and Thomas. Buddies all these years later, Courtesy Thomas Henderson

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Six Frogs Over Tango, Part 2

PAUL HECKMANN — Fri, 05 Sep 2025 19:12:09 +0000

The Travels of the Tango Frogs

Three of the Tango Frogs relocated to Dallas at Chuy’s on Lowest Greenville. Courtesy Lisa Wade

A Conversation with Monk White

If you’ve ever driven past a taco joint on Lowest Greenville in Dallas and seen giant frogs dancing on the roof, you’ve glimpsed the strange, wonderful legacy of Bob “Daddy-O” Wade—Texas’s unofficial minister of roadside art. But to truly understand the journey of the famous Tango Frogs, you have to talk to one of the men behind the madness: Monk White. Without whom, none of this might have happened.

Monk’s name kept surfacing as I interviewed the people who knew Daddy-O best—Shannon and Angus Wynne, Lisa Wade, and more. So I gave him a call.

“Monk White…” I began. “How do I know that name? Are you from Dallas?”

“I grew up in Fort Worth,” he said. “University of Texas. Then Wharton. Wall Street. Eventually, I came back to Dallas. Spent most of my life there before settling in Austin.”

“Sounds enough like a Dallasite to me,” I told him, mentioning my years in the nightclub scene—back when Greenville Avenue was all neon and attitude. Even did a one-year stint as maître d’ when the Playboy Club opened.

That got his attention.

“Oh my God, really? With Lenny Licht and Joel McQuade?”

“Yep. And a couple of wild years at Papagayo, too.”

He laughed. “Then we’ve definitely crossed paths. My crew ran with the Stoneleigh P crowd, or wherever Shannon or Angus were stirring things up.”

We were already speaking the same language.

Making Art Out of Chaos

I asked Monk how he first met Daddy-O Wade.

“We were connected way back at UT,” he said. “Later, when I returned to Dallas after working on Wall Street, I found Daddy-O a place on the east side. That’s when the art got real crazy. I bought him a shop on Lemmon Avenue—just down from Mother Blues. It became a circus. Half a dozen cars would roll up and we’d take the place over. I was in on most of Daddy-O’s big projects.”

Monk’s name appears over and over in Daddy-O’s Book of Big-Ass Art, a fitting tribute to the man who helped make many of those wild dreams a reality.

The Giant Iguana, sitting on top of Lone Star Cafe in Manhattan in NYC. Courtesy Lisa and Rachel Wade and “Daddy-O’s Book of Big Ass Art”

“Daddy-O was hilarious,” Monk recalled. “Just walk into a room and people would start laughing. He saw the world differently. I once brought back some little iguanas from Mexico—cheap tourist junk. He picked one up and said, ‘I want to build a 36-foot iguana.’ No plan. No hesitation. Next thing you know, we’re fundraising and that thing’s sitting in D.C., then on Wall Street, then on a NYC cafe and now back home in Texas.”

Enter the Frogs

The Tango Frogs started the same way.

“I brought back these little stuffed frogs from Mexico,” Monk said. “Daddy-O took one look and said, ‘Let’s make eight-foot versions.’ And that was that.”

Towering, grinning, frozen mid-boogie—these frogs became icons the moment they hit the roof of Tango nightclub on Greenville Avenue. But when Tango closed in 1985, the frogs went up for auction.

“I think I paid about $2,500 at the auction for them,” Monk told me.

“And Shannon said they cost around $20,000 to make. Sounds like a great deal!” Paul said

Willie Nelson Whiskey River Saloon, Courtesy Debby Pressinger 09-13-2009

Instead of stashing them away, Monk gave the frogs a new stage: Carl’s Corner, a funky roadside stop he co-owned with Carl Cornelius near Hillsboro. With Willie Nelson playing regular gigs there and truckers pulling over for gas, beer, and a photo op, Carl’s Corner became legendary. And the frogs? They fit right in.

Even after the building burned down, the frogs survived; three were out back, and three more were mounted on top of the gas pumps. Later, they appeared at Willie’s Place, then popped up in Houston, Austin, Nashville and then Dallas again—perched above a taco joint near the old Tango location. More on that journey in our blow-by-blow chronology in Part 3 of this series.

Willie, Weed & Unexpected Stages

Not all of Monk’s stories were about sculpture.

“One day, Willie’s tour bus pulled up,” he said. “Now, I’m not much of a smoker, but I took a couple of hits off the bong. Next thing I know, I’m being asked to walk upstairs—where all the sheriffs are—and end up on stage in front of 2,000 people. That boy could get you in trouble.”

We both laughed at that. Because of course he could.

Monk Today

Now 83 (though he swears he feels 65), Monk lives in Austin with his wife Joanne, not far from his two daughters.

“Lost my first wife, but I’ve been blessed to find happiness again,” he told me.

“Congratulations! Still waiting for mine.” I said. Before we ended the call, I said, “If we’d met back in Dallas, I think we’d have been good friends.”

“Absolutely,” he replied.

No doubt about it!

Frog’s get a do-over. Courtesy Faith Schexnayder and Flatfork Studio

The Frog Whisperer

Faith Schexnayder, Flatfork Studio and the Second Life of the Tango Frogs

By Paul Heckmann

The Tango Frogs have traveled a long way from their rooftop boogie days on Lower Greenville. Ten feet tall, mischievously grinning, and full of Texas swagger, they’ve danced their way into state folklore. But to understand how these fiberglass (well, not quite) legends were reborn, you have to meet the artist who gave them a second life: Faith Schexnayder.

I’d been chasing the story of the frogs for a while—talking with Shannon Wynne, Lisa Wade, and Monk White. Their tales were wild, but I knew I needed the rest of the picture. So I picked up the phone and called Faith to find out more about how the frogs were made.

“Faith, this is Paul Heckmann. I’m a friend of Shannon Wynne, Lisa Wade, Monk White… and I’ve been tracking the Frogs!” I said, half-laughing.

She chuckled. “Good luck,” she replied dryly.

“I’ve had these frogs almost going to Japan,” I joked.

“Not quite that far,” she said. “But they did make it to Nashville.”

From Film Sets to Folk Art

Faith’s own journey has been just as colorful as the frogs she revived. She began her career in the Texas film industry, working on big-name productions like RoboCop and television projects with Turner Network and Amblin Entertainment. But over the years, her creativity spilled over into new worlds—designing children’s rooms, building whimsical event installations, and restoring some of Texas’s most beloved pieces of pop art.

Faith and Bob Wade’s giant hamburger for Hilbert’s in Austin. Courtesy Faith Schexnayder

Her first collaboration with Bob “Daddy-O” Wade came in the mid-1990s, when he enlisted her to help repair a few of his offbeat creations, including the iconic Hula Hut fish in the river and a giant hamburger for Hilbert’s Burgers in Austin. Then, in 2010, the Tango Frogs came hopping back into the picture—weather-beaten, bird-nested, and in serious need of TLC.

“They were in bad shape,” Faith recalled. “I mean, missing pieces, flaking paint, nests in their heads. But we got them looking fantastic again.”

Frogs, Flip-Flops, and Faith’s Touch

Working out of her Austin studio, Flatfork Studio, Faith didn’t just restore the frogs—she reimagined them.

She gave one frog a pair of flip-flops. The female frog, previously barefoot, now sported bright red cowboy boots and a little “top tie” for flair. Faith added sculpted pads to their fingers for realism and replaced missing parts with weather-resistant materials. The eyelashes? Not just an afterthought—they’re made from actual Volkswagen Beetle headlight eyelashes, catching the Texas sunlight like winks from a cartoon dream.

“Bob did everything on the cheap,” Faith said with a grin. “So most of the hands-on stuff came down to me and a few others.”

Despite their towering height and show-stopping appearance, the frogs aren’t made of fiberglass, as many, including myself, assumed. Their internal structure is a blend of metal rebar, chicken wire, spray foam, and a durable rubberized coating. They’re sturdy—but moving them is no small feat. It requires cranes, careful planning, and a healthy dose of prayer.

A Traveling Troupe

The Frogs on their way back to Dallas to leapfrog onto the roof of the Chuy’s patio on Lowest Greenville. Courtesy Lisa Wade, Faith Schexnayder and Flatfork Studio

Over the years, the frogs have leapfrogged their way across Texas and beyond: from Dallas to Houston, from Austin to Nashville, and eventually back home again on Lowest Greenville Avenue in Dallas. They’ve lived at Carl’s Corner (where Willie Nelson once helped keep the lights on), graced rooftops of taco joints, and most recently, made their way to Chuy’s and the Truck Yard, just blocks from where they first captivated passersbys in the ’80s.

Originally commissioned by Shannon Wynne for $20,000, the frogs were later sold at auction and scooped up by Monk White for just $2,000. Today, Faith estimates it costs about $10,000 per frog just to refurbish them properly.

“They’re big,” she said, “and they’re built to last—but only if someone keeps loving them.”

The Iguana Mobile & What’s Next

The Iguanamobile, courtesy Bid.AustinAuction.com

Faith hasn’t slowed down. One of her latest projects? The Bambi Airstream, affectionately known as the Iguana Mobile. Originally built to promote Daddy-O’s Book of Big-Ass Art, the trailer is now being stripped down and redesigned as a mobile event service vehicle.

“We’re really bringing it back to life,” she said. “It’s going to be something special.”

More Than Just Frogs

As our call wrapped up, I told Faith she was my final interview for the project.

“Good luck with everything,” she said with a warm laugh.

She reminded me of something that’s easy to forget when you’re staring up at a ten-foot frog in flip-flops: these aren’t just roadside attractions. They’re living stories—full of personality, memory, and the odd bit of mischief.

“Walk past them today,” she said, “and you can almost see the stories they carry. The eyelashes catching the sun, the paint gleaming, the grin just daring you not to smile.”

In the end, the Tango Frogs aren’t just art. They’re Texas. They’re joy. They’re a little wink from the past, reminding us to keep dancing—no matter how weird the tune gets.

Thanks to Truck Yard and Lisa Wade and Faith Schexnayder, who pulled their truck up to the Truck Yard (TY’s Frogs on top of the roof) so that the family of Frogs could croak together for a final time before taking them to their forever (hopefully) home at Chuys on Greenville Ave.

If you want to learn more about Bob Wade and his art, visit www.bobwade.com or check out his books, Daddy’s Book of Big Ass Art and Daddy’s Book of Iguana Heads and Texas Tales. And if you happen to drive past Chuy’s in Dallas, or the Truck Yard just around the corner, look up—you might just catch the Tango Frogs watching over the city, as they’ve done for decades.

Stay tuned for Part 3, with Scot from Chuy’s and their trip through the eyes of the Chuy designer. Also the chronology of Bob Wade’s projects and his various other Projects.

If you missed Part 1, go to https://meminc.org/six-frogs-over-tango-part-1/

Thanks to so many folks for helping out with this Tango Frogs project, including the fella that kicked it off, Shannon Wynne, his brother and MemInc Board Emeritus Angus Wynne III, editing by Mike Farris, the Memories Admins Mark Cheyne, Chris Doelle, all of our 20ish Moderators, Lisa Wade and the spirit of her hubby Bob “Daddy-O” Wade, Scot Aubuchon formerly of Chuy’s, Faith Shexnayder, fixer extraordinaire, Tom and Laura Garrison of the new Stoneleigh P and of course Monk White, without whom a lot of this wouldn’t have come together!

And of course, all the members of our Facebook Groups, Memories of Dallas, Memories of Texas and Memories of Texas Music, who contributed greatly.

If you liked this project, please help us keep them coming. Donate We are a 501c3, Memories Inc, EIN 83-0566883

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Six Frogs Over Tango, Part 1

PAUL HECKMANN — Wed, 27 Aug 2025 16:13:01 +0000

The Six Frogs over Tango. On top of the club. Photo courtesy Internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

Six Frogs Over Tango: Shannon Wynne

Shannon Wynne and the Tango

In the early 1980s, Shannon Wynne was looking to create something new in Dallas nightlife. “Video was still really new back then,” he recalled. “I wanted something different, so I built a club that had a room with 20–25 TVs in it. It was very innovative for the time.”

Tango wasn’t just his first nightclub—it became a destination. There was even a video DJ, or “VJ,” although, as Wynne admits, it was a far cry from today’s sophisticated setups. “They just played music videos that were MTV quality. They weren’t creating anything live. But David Bowie heard about it, and he came to see it.”

The old bank building that housed Tango shaped much of its character. Videos played in the vault room, adding a quirky layer to the atmosphere. But the club’s most iconic feature would be born out of a chance encounter in a friend’s studio.

Wynne had known the artist and Texas folk legend Bob “Daddy-O” Wade for some time, ever since helping him build the Texas Mobile Home Museum in 1976. He even had a hand in the creation of the giant ostrich-skin boots now standing in San Antonio, and later pitched in on Daddy-O’s Iguanomobile. By 1981, Wynne had already seen Daddy-O’s work on display in New York City, and while rummaging through his studio for inspiration, he spotted one of those curious stuffed frogs playing an instrument—an item often found in curio shops in Mexico.

The Iguanamobile, courtesy Bid.AustinAuction.com

“That would be cool,” Wynne thought aloud. Daddy-O agreed, and together they dreamed up “Six Frogs Over Tango,” (also known as “Six Frogs Over Greenville”), in deference to Shannon’s dad, Angus Wynne Jr., who came up with the world-renowned amusement park “Six Flags Over Texas.”

The frogs would be large, motorized, and ‘permanently’ perched atop Tango. Daddy-O set up a “frog factory” originally in an old warehouse on Lemmon Avenue owned by Monk White, then they were later moved to a warehouse on Greenville, gathering a crew to bring the vision to life. “Daddy-O didn’t really get himself dirty,” Wynne laughed. “He directed traffic.”

The final product—six massive amphibians, each eight or nine feet tall—cost around $20,000. Some were posed as if dancing, all set to canned music while their heads and bodies rotated above the street. The installation required a crane and a sign crew to hoist them onto the roof. The frogs even earned national attention, with mentions in Newsweek and People Magazine.

Shannon Wynne, Count Basie and Tony Bennett at Tango back in the day. Courtesy Shannon Wynne

And guess what? Dallas City Hall decided they were advertising, signage of a sort which was prohibited, and said to take them down. Shannon and his neighbors disagreed. Shannon took them to Frog court and got the ban overturned as they were considered art! It was lampooned in the Dallas Times-Herald.

Courtesy Dallas Times-Herald, drawn by Scott Willis, TH Editorial Cartoonist

When Tango eventually closed, everything was auctioned off. Wynne remembered the question hanging over the six rooftop giants: “What are you going to do with six giant frogs?” Monk White had the answer—he purchased them for $2,500 and moved them to Carl’s Corner, the quirky truck stop he co-owned with Carl Cornelius. (more on that in the Monk White interview in Part 2)

Before they departed Greenville Avenue, Wynne and friends threw the frogs a big goodbye party at the nearby Fast and Cool Club. Photographs from the day show Wynne, Cornelius, Daddy-O, and Monk White standing proudly on the flatbed truck hauling the green troupe toward their new life.

Today, Wynne is just happy they’ve survived. “I’m really glad they’re both on Greenville,” he said of their current separate locations. “I’m sorry they’re not in the same place, but at least they’re still there.” At one point, he even tried to reunite them all for one of his ‘Rodeo Goat’ restaurant locations in the Taco Cabana building that stood on top of the old Tango property, but the building’s owners opted for a Starbucks instead.

For Wynne, the Tango Frogs aren’t just an eccentric decoration—they’re a reminder of a creative era when a handful of visionaries could dream big, build wild, and leave something unforgettable in the Dallas skyline.

Six Frogs Over Tango: Lisa Wade

The Hopping History of the Tango Frogs: A Conversation with Lisa Wade

When it comes to Dallas icons, few are as instantly recognizable—or as beloved—as the Tango Frogs. Perched high above buildings for decades, these six giant amphibians have hopped across Texas and beyond, leaving a trail of memories, tall tales, and quirky art history in their wake.

To get the real story, I spoke with Lisa Wade, wife of the late artist Bob “Daddy-O” Wade, the man who birthed the frogs. Over the course of our conversation, we traced the frogs’ unlikely journey, shared stories about the Dallas club scene in the ’80s, and talked about the friends and characters who kept the legend alive.

Bob Wade riding one of his 40′ tall ‘ostrich’ cowboy boots. Courtesy Lisa Wade and “Daddy O’s Book of Big Ass Art”

From Stuffed Iguanas to Giant Frogs

Lisa explained that the idea for the frogs didn’t start with frogs at all—it began with a stuffed iguana.

“Our friend Monk White brought a stuffed iguana back from Puerto Vallarta,” she recalled. “That’s what kicked off the whole thing.” Then the sculpture at Artpark was moved to the Lone Star Cafe in 1978, the Boots in 1979, all before the Frogs looked over Greenville Ave. (a timeline for the Bob Wade and the Frogs is being completed for Part 2)

At the time, Bob Wade had already built a reputation for creating oversized, whimsical public art—giant cowboy boots, a saxophone sculpture, the famous Iguanamobile. The frogs came to life in 1982–83 at the “Frog Factory” across from the legendary Dallas club, Tango. They first appeared in the St. Patrick’s Day Parade on Greenville Avenue, mounted on the back of a flatbed truck.

Daddy O surveying what the Frogs were seeing, installing them on the top of Tango, Courtesy Lisa Wade and “Daddy O’s Book of Big Ass Art”

Life Above Tango

Once complete, the frogs took their place atop the Tango nightclub, becoming part of the city’s nightlife identity. The ’80s Dallas club scene was wild, and Lisa remembers it vividly—clubs like the Starck Club, the Rio Room, and the Nostromo were all part of the cultural background.

“It was the ’80s,” she laughed. “People talk about how there was ecstasy at the Starck Club, just sitting in bowls on the counter, like mints. It was a different time.”

Bob wasn’t a partier, but he was an observer, and he noticed everything. The frogs became more than decoration—they were conversation starters, landmarks, and eventually, symbols of a certain Dallas era.

The Great Frog Migration

By 1985, the frogs’ rooftop residency ended. After appearing at the Fast and Cool Club, all six were moved to Carl’s Corner, the famous truck stop founded by Willie Nelson’s friend Carl Cornelius and Monk White.

Three of the Frogs on top of the gas/diesel pumps at Carl’s Corner. Courtesy Dallas.culture.com, 2020 article

“They survived a fire there,” Lisa said. “Three were up over the gas pumps, three in back. The ones up front got their fingers a little charred, but that was it. We were lucky those gas pumps didn’t go up.”

From there, the frogs began their decades-long journey:

Mid-1980s – Three frogs remained at Carl’s Corner, while the others traveled in a Texas sculpture show.

1990 article courtesy TAMU Battalion and TAMU.edu, Frogs on the art tour around 1987

Early 2000s – Some ended up in front of a Taco Cabana in Dallas, then moved to the Truck Yard.

2013 – Three were moved from Chuy’s in Houston to Chuy’s in Nashville.

2024 – Thanks to the efforts of “Sweet Guy Scot” from Chuy’s and artist Faith (who had refurbished other Wade works and we interviewed in Part 2), the Nashville frogs were returned to Dallas and restored to glory at a new Chuy’s location—just blocks from their original home.

Friends, Characters, and the Legacy

Names like Monk White, Mike Young, and Shannon Wynne come up often when talking about the frogs’ history. Lisa spoke warmly about Monk, calling him “the best” and sharing that he had been the best man at her wedding.

She also recalled the endless network of friends, artists, and characters that surrounded Bob Wade’s work. “Once you started working with Bob, you were irrevocably part of his life,” she said.

Traveling Frogs, courtesy Lisa, Rachel and Daddy-O Wade

More Than Just Frogs

Lisa sees the frogs not only as art, but as living pieces of history. “You don’t own the sculptures anymore, but you’re tied to them for life. You just hope people take care of them.”

Bob Wade’s art—whether it was the frogs, the Iguanamobile, or giant cowboy boots—was never just about the object. It was about joy, humor, and the way people connected to them.

“They’ve hopped around for over 40 years,” Lisa said. “Through fires, moves, and even corporate buyouts, they’ve survived. People love them.”

Still Hopping

Today, three of the Tango Frogs sit proudly above Chuy’s in Dallas, their green bodies gleaming from a recent restoration. They’re a reminder of a wilder, more colorful Dallas—and of the artist who believed in making art fun and unforgettable. The other three sit around the corner at The Truck Yard, all six are within a couple of blocks of their original home.

As Willie Nelson said when he first saw them at Carl’s Corner: “What the hell is Carl on?”

Now, Lisa says, “He understands. He knows what a genius Daddy-O Wade really was.”

Stay tuned for Part 2, very soon with the prime suspect, the instigator Monk White, the repairer, painter and overall Frog fixer Faith Shexnayder and also Scot Abuchon, the designer for Chuy’s for several decades.

And of course, all the members of our Facebook Groups, Memories of Dallas, Memories of Texas and Memories of Texas Music who contributed greatly.

If you liked this project, please help us keep them coming. Donate We are a 501c3, Memories Inc, EIN 83-0566883

The post Six Frogs Over Tango, Part 1 first appeared on Memories Incorporated, a Texas 501c3.

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Troy Dungan – Weatherman Extraordinaire

PAUL HECKMANN — Sun, 11 May 2025 18:34:37 +0000

By Paul Heckmann

Edited by Mike Farris

Paul Heckmann: Hello there Troy. Paul Heckmann here.

Troy Dungan: Hi Paul, I just walked in the door.

Paul: Glad to finally catch up with you.

Troy Dungan and the crew at Channel 8, Iola Johnson, Tracy Rowlett and Verne Lundquist. Courtesy WBAP

Let me kind of start out for the folks that might have recently moved to Dallas or Fort Worth. Mr. Dungan was our Channel 8 Weatherman for many years. I know he goes back a bit before that, so I will let him fill you in.

Troy: I stopped doing this in, in 2007, so it’s been 18 years since I was a TV weather guy, but, but I did it for 45 years, 31 here in Dallas.

Paul: It’s quite amazing actually. You’ve been named the best television weathercaster by the Texas AP broadcasters eight times. The Dallas Observer had named you the best television weather caster five times. You’d received the Knight of the Press award and special recognition from the National Oceanic, atmospheric Association research flight facility for work on a documentary dealing with the subject of hurricanes. Additionally, The Dallas Press Club had bestowed the Kaia Award upon you. During the last week as Chief Weather Anchor, the National Weather Service gave, Troy an award for his service to the weather community.

I guess we should start this with your personal history. You were born in Ennis?

Troy: Yes, I was born in Ennis and my parents moved to Hillsboro when I was three. So I’m basically a local. I lived in Hillsboro from age 3 to 18, and then they moved south a few miles when I went to Baylor. So I was in this part of the country for most of my life until I started working

Paul: Sic’em Bears.

Troy: Yes, indeed. I went to Baylor and then I started working at KWTX Radio and TV in Waco where a lot of local guys started. KWTX is a very good radio and TV station, it’s a real pioneer. I think the TV station’s been the air since the early fifties, it’s a good product in a good market

Waco’s not a big city, but it’s a good radio and TV market.

Paul: Absolutely.

Troy: So, are you a Baylor grad as well?

Paul: I went to Baylor for a couple of semesters. I went to Texas A&I as I got a football scholarship down there.

So, when did you leave Waco for Orlando?

Troy: When I graduated in January of 59, I moved down to KBTX-TV in Bryan College Station at that time. Ladybird Johnson owned half of that station so it was a natural transition.

In 1959, Bryan Valley Station good, but I decided I wanted to see the world, so I went to Florida on vacation. I applied at several different TV stations there. At that time this one was called WDBO in Orlando, it’s now Channel 6, a CBS station.

And so I got a job there however it was not doing news or weather. It was what you used to call a ‘booth announcer’. That was the fella that announced all the station commercial logs. Then in February of 62 they said, ‘hey kid, we need somebody to do the weather at 11 o’clock. You wanna try this?” And I said, “Sure”. And then later on they added another cast at 6 PM.

And then a station in Houston called and said, they would provide me with an education in Meteorology.

Troy and Janet in the early days. Courtesy Troy Dungan

I moved to Houston to KTRK-TV, and for a year and a half to two years, I had private lessons every day from a couple of professors at the University of St. Thomas, a Catholic University in Houston. And they developed a TV meteorology curriculum based on what they taught me. So my background is quite unusual. I’m the only one I know that really had private lessons in meteorology. My degrees are in Radio, TV and Political Science. That private training really played off for me.

Paul: And was that the National Engineering Science Company?

Troy: That was just the University of St. Thomas. These two guys were college professors, Dr. Thomas and Dr. Goldwyn and they developed a curriculum based on what they taught me.

So that put me in good stead for seven and a half years at KTRK TV in Houston. It’s ABC 13 now.

Paul: That’s amazing. Isn’t that where you met your wife?

Troy: Janet and I met when we both worked at KTRK-TV in Houston. She was a behind the scenes staffer. Too bad she wasn’t in front of the camera. She was and still is beautiful.

Paul: That she is!

Now when did you leave for Philadelphia?

Troy Dungan at Ch 7. Photo courtesy Internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

Troy: It was in 1972. They actually contacted me. CBS owned that station at Tough Times Networks, they only owned five network stations at that time.

One of them was in Philadelphia and this guy called me and he said, ‘I need somebody here’. So I went up and interviewed with them and sure enough, got a job doing weather in Philadelphia, which was big because at that point, Philly was the fourth largest market, it’s a big city.

It’s a wonderful place. It’s, it’s a tough town for sports fans, you know, they actually booed Santa Claus at a Eagles game. The winter’s not too bad, summer’s not too hot. I was there for a couple of years

Paul: And that’s when you developed current five day forecast system?

Troy and his brand new “5 Day Outlook”. Photo courtesy Internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

Troy: That is correct. We were one of the first ones to do that.

Now they do it all the time. The forecast is really the first two days – and outlook is five days and anything beyond that’s an educated guess.

Paul: Tell me about WXYZ in Detroit.

Troy: I was in, in Philadelphia a couple years, and the guy that I had replaced in Philadelphia, whatever news, and after a couple years, they’re gonna bring him back, and so my spot kind of went away. So. I didn’t really look for a job in Detroit. That was not a place I was really headed for. But I went to New York and spoke with Al Primo at, ABC. He was developed a happy talk TV news and he, he leaned back in his chair and he said, I need someone in Detroit. So I go back to Philadelphia that afternoon and I’m a plane ticket for Detroit the next day.

Ah, the climate in Detroit. The people are great, but the climate’s awful. Anyway, the bottom line was I got this job in Detroit and for two years I did weather and environmental reporting there, but I was never really delighted to be there.

However, I met Marty Haag, who was the TV news director at WFAA in Dallas while I was still in Detroit. So it took us a while to work this out, but in the spring of 76, I came down to Dallas and sure enough, I got the job as well.

Paul: Now there is one big part of your journey yet to be told from WXYZ. Tell me about the evolution of your signature bow tie.

Troy: That is correct. Yes, it was, it was very cold and I was doing a story about ice fishing in the middle of Pontiac Lake. The ice was like eight inches thick and we all had these Channel 7 Blazers. And it had the logo on the pocket so we all looked alike, and you had to wear a high neck sweater because it was cold. Our ties would disappear underneath those sweaters. Anyway, Don Meredith was doing a Super Bowl for ABC, and he was wearing a bow tie. I said, ‘that’s interesting’, and when I tried it, you could still see the high neck sweater. So I bought three bow ties, wore ’em for three days, took a day off.

And after that, one of the anchors said, what happened to that bow tie? That was interesting. So I went and bought some more. That was 1974. So I started wearing bow ties and it became a trademark. It really says, here’s this guy and there’s everybody else. So it was, it was a good trademark for me. It still is.

Paul: And these were all hand tied bow ties too.

Troy: Oh yes, I said, if you’re gonna do this, you gotta learn to do it right. So I kept the instructions in my pocket for a long time just in case somebody came along and ripped it undone. I. And it’s still not easy. I have to stand in front of a mirror to do this, and I couldn’t tie one on anybody else. It’s still not an easy discipline, but it’s worth it because it just turned out to be my look.

Paul: Well, you know, something, I had the clip on bow ties and I had to stand still stand in front of a mirror to get it straight.

Troy: And also I’ll let you in another secret if Paul, there are two ways to wear a bow tie, the kind you hand tie. You can just have the kind of a double make hair look or it’s a little messy. Or if you’re anal retentive as I am, you’d like for the ends to match. So I take double sticky tape and stick the ends together after it’s tied and that way it looks neat.

Paul: Very cool! Okay then. Now you don’t wear a bow tie on Thanksgiving. Is there a story there?

Troy: Well, that’s, that used to be when I worked at Channel 8, I was the senior guy, so I could, I could work what holidays I wanted, but I wanted to be fair. So I always wanted to be off Christmas. So I always worked on Thanksgiving, which is a weekday of course.

And so on those days I would always wear a turtleneck. That’s kind of a protest of being there!

And I still have a, I have a drawer full of ’em. I’ve got 220 bow ties. I have a new client, a commercial, so I’m wearing a tie in that or whatever. So if I wore a tie there, I’d look like I was trying to stand out if I have a business meeting. Like a, a funeral or something. I still have those ties and, and I wear ’em and I don’t have any straight ties!

Paul: And Dallas is next. You arrive in July of 1976, tell me about what’s going on and how you got there.

Troy: Hardy Hague was the news director. We knew each other and as I said before, it took us a while to put it together. So he invited me down and we decided that we could do this. And my parents were in Ennis by that time, so they were happy They were living here and it’s the only place I ever worked where my parents could watch me on TV.

We had a daughter at that time who was a year and a half old. So also my parents got to watch my baby daughter grow up. Her name is Wyn-Erin

And we had three days to look for a house. We came down in the spring from Detroit to move here in July.

We, the third house we looked at third day, we bought that house in July of 1976, and that’s where I’m sitting right now. We still live in that house. Paul,

Paul: And your daughter?

Troy: She is married and. So I’m a grandpa. So, but, but you know what, we had two older kids as well, and think about this. This is the house where they grew up. Mm-hmm. And that doesn’t really happen anymore. You know, this is people move around. But since we’ve been here for half a century in this house, well, those kids grew up here, so it’s home. Janet and I love that place.

Paul: So you’re, you’re back in Dallas. Was this only at 6pm?

Troy: actually, I did the, the weather at five, six, and 10: And for 30 years I did that. And then I was gonna retire at after those 30 years, I was certainly there long enough to retire, but they talked me into staying another year. So, Pete Delkus entered the picture. I had been responsible for getting my own replacement, so I talked to him into coming down from WCPO in Cincinnati. We worked together for a year. We kind of split duty. And then the last was there, the 31st year. I just did the six o’clock weather. Pete did the five and the 10. So after that, I stopped in July of 2007, and that’s been 18 years now. I haven’t looked back.

Paul: An amazing career.

Paul: While we are on Ch 8, let’s talk about Dale Hansen, your station’s sports guy. Dale claimed weather was an easy job…

Troy: I said, ‘It’s not quite like forecasting all the sports stories five days ahead.’

And he said, he said, ‘Okay, you got me there.’

Paul: Dale was known to spout a little bit.

Troy: Oh, Dale’s one of those guys. He’s got no filter on his brain. Whatever’s out there just comes out his mouth.

Paul: He is a character for sure.

Troy: He is indeed.

I just had a wonderful career, but you know, I said I’ve done this long enough and I wanna stop before somebody tells me to!

Paul: Well, looking back in your youth, I bet you never thought about doing the weather..

Troy: In high school I was interested in journalism and was a paid reporter for the local newspaper in Hillsboro when I was in high school. I had the idea of majoring in journalism at Baylor and I kind of fell into broadcasting and wound up a degree in, in Radio and TV Communications, and I had room for a second major. So I chose Political Science. So I started out to be in the news business and the weather just kind of came to me by chance. You have to be ready for whatever life brings you and turned out it was gonna be weather. So I did that for 45 years. It was very good to me.

Paul: ‘Dance with what brung ya’ as I think Darrell Royal said.

Troy: That’s true. Worked out very well.

Paul: Worked out very well.

Troy Dungan VHA Toy Drive WFAA Ch 8 Santa’s Helpers, courtesy Tim Seaman

Who were some of your favorite co-hosts to work with?

Troy: Well, Tracy Rowlett and I are still friends, I’m having dinner with him and his wife plus another couple next week, We’ve known each other, of course, for over 50 years, and Tracy and I have worked together on several different occasions.

And we talk about things that happened behind the camera and some of other people. The late Chip Moody was just a real character. We got a lot of good stories and, of course I worked with Dale Hansen, we were acquaintances. We were never really close friends because he only showed up in the studio to do the sports and he was back in his office. I also worked with Verne Lundquist who’s retired now, he worked for CBS sports for many years. He’s still a good friend as well. But I don’t see him very much.

He spends a lot of time in Steamboat Springs, which would be his first home now. So otherwise, we’ve just had a good bunch of people over the years. Uh, some people whose names you wouldn’t recognize from on the air, but we’re still friends and see each other and, and still enjoy friendships ’cause life’s about relationships. And if you can maintain those friendships, that’s a very important part of life.

Paul: Absolutely. I still have friends from nearly every job I’ve done in my life, and there were a lot of them!

So who might be the best producer that you worked with? Who was the most fun?

Troy: Well, you know what? That would be hard to say, but I will say that one of the producers later became a really close friend, his name is John. We call him “Sparky” as his last name was Sparks.

John worked at most the stations in Dallas, he was also the executive producer at WNDC TV in New York for four years. But he moved back here. Well, in 2013 and 2014 there was a little startup station, channel 47, they put on a show called, Texas Daily. A number of us who had been in TV, they called us back to do that show.

It was an hour long show. Tracy and I were the anchors for two days of the week. And you could just, you drink coffee with your buddy 30 minutes before the show, say whatever you want for an hour on the show, and then you go home. Well, “Sparky” John Sparks was the producer. And we really connected and found our spiritual connection. We wound up going to church together and we are still good friends. We see each other very often. They’re very high on our list of social friends, that’s the producer that really jumps out to me.

Paul: Iola was on that Ch 47 show, I believe.

Troy: John Criswell was also there. He passed away in 2023.

Paul: I worked with John Criswell’s daughter when she was a Playboy Bunny at the Playboy Club of Dallas. Very lovely lady.

Troy: Yes she is.

Troy’s retirement cake at WFAA. Courtesy Lane Luckie and laneluckie.com

Paul: Tell me about the Skeeter meter.

Troy: Well, the mosquitos are a bit of a problem in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. At that time the City of Dallas was releasing a report every day predicting what mosquito activity would be. There are all sorts of diseases that mosquitoes can bring. Our art director came up with this meter and it says, mosquitoes green, yellow, and red, with a dial. And we put that on the screen behind me and. It would show what we expected the mosquito activity to be; Red, yellow, or green.

You know what, I asked about that the other day? I think that one of those is still exists at Channel 8, somewhere in the back room of engineering. I don’t really know anybody down there anymore, but I need to get down there and see if we can unearth that, that would be an artifact.

Paul: Oh yeah. I love those artifacts. We collect them for Memories Incorporated, we have a storage locker for them up in Carrollton. I just got one from somebody that you probably know, Bud Buschardt.

Troy: Yes, Bud was a, he was a really good guy. Unfortunately, we lost him recently. He was a great loss, but he was a good guy. Very well thought of in the business.

Paul: I got to interview him and went to his house about four or five times. It was filled to the brim with records. I’ve never seen so many records in all my life.

Troy: Ha. That’s right. That was Bud.

Paul: And he had a full turntable set where he could play and record anything he wanted to there. And he had the actual original turntables from the Something Else show.

Chip Moody watches Troy Dungan & Gloria prepare for Chip’s annual Beni Hana Celeb Chef’s fundraiser for Children’s Med Ctr. Courtesy Gloria Campos

Troy: Oh my. The Ron Chapman show.

Paul: Exactly. Yes. That’s another one.

Troy: Ron Chapman was another dear friend and a really good guy. And unfortunately we lost him recently also. But, as you know, we all have egos in this business, so did Ron. But let me tell you that behind the scenes, Ron was a very sweet man who did a lot of good for a lot of people. He never publicized those good deeds. He was really a good guy. And he’s missed.

Paul: Did you ever have to cover for another anchor, like sports or something else?

Troy: No, I never did that. But you know, that wouldn’t be easy to do because if somebody told Tracy Rowlett to go do the weather, that’s not something that’s going to be easy because you’re not used to it. And if same by the same token, I don’t think they would ever let me do that, ’cause they probably wouldn’t think I’d be serious enough about it. But sometimes it did happen. One time the news anchor didn’t show up on a Saturday. I was filling in for somebody doing the weather. And George Reba had to do the sports and the news. You know it’s not easy when it’s something you’re not used to doing.

Paul: At least if you’re sitting down at the desk, maybe you could read off the teleprompters there.

Troy: Well, you probably know when you do the weather, you use a teleprompter, you’re prepared the data, so you just kind of talk about what you figured out all afternoon.

Paul: You also have to figure out what’s behind you on the green screen.

Troy: Exactly, yes.

Paul: You REALLY have to know what you are doing to do green screens correctly. What year did you start using green screens?

Troy: I think that was 1983. At that point, we began to have some computer products, and if you wanted to show that and still be in the picture yourself, you could use what we then called chroma key. So John Coleman, who was a weather guy in Chicago, and I kind of dispute about who invented that. It was one of the two of us. It was not the same time, but I was one of the first one or two people to use it for sure. And of course that’s the way they do it now. And now, until now, some stations, including one in the Fort Worth area, just have a video wall behind them. So the pictures are really there. Yes. But before that, you have to look at monitors off to one side or the other and create the illusion that there’s something behind you.

Paul: Wow. It’s amazing.

So tell me about the family. Are they all Baylor Bears?

Troy: As for Leah and Dana, Janet had those two little ones when we got married.

They were nine and five. Leah lives in California. Unfortunately, we, we lost Dana about a short time ago to liver disease. He was 53. But to answer your question, neither one of them. She went to North Texas and he went to a private school and was in the Air Force, but our daughter, Erin did follow me to Baylor and did study communication.

She had her Master’s in Communications and she was a TV director at KWTX TV in Waco. And then, she got married in Oklahoma. And was a TV director. And then she got tired of getting up at two in the morning because in TV, you know, you work one end of the clock or the other. I always worked at night. She always directed the morning news. So finally she got a job at the University of Oklahoma Medical School as a Baylor Bear working surrounded by the Philistines at OU!!

In Norman, it’s downtown by the capital. So she wound up being in charge of all online and on demand, programming for classes. But when she had her first, child 15 years ago, (our first grandchild), my wife said, you see you need to retire and take care of those kids. And so she did. So she does some work from home for some people, but she got off TV as well. So nobody else in TV in the family nowadays.

Paul: So sorry for your loss, may Dana rest in peace.

Well is there anything else you’d like to add to to this we haven’t talked

Troy: Thank you. And no, I think I’ve told you about everything I know and everyone I know!

Paul: When we first started talking about this, it was interesting because I’m from a little town about 10-15 miles west of Waco, and Troy’s from a little town 20-25 miles north of Waco. We were in the same district when I played football in high school. When we said ‘let’s go into the city’, we were talking about Waco, not Dallas.

Troy: Yes. Dallas was almost an overnight trip. In those days, it’s 60 miles. It was, the shops were open late one night in the big cities, so off and on Thursday we’d go down to Waco and have dinner at the Piccadilly cafeteria and go shopping at Cox’s!

Paul: Piccadilly’s downtown was an every Sunday after church for us. Got my fried fish and chocolate Ice Box pie there

Troy: Exactly. Then once in a while we’d come to Dallas as my dad owned a laundry, direct cleaning plant, so we would go north to buy supplies and we’d go to lunch and sometimes come to the Dallas Eagles or Fort Worth Cats baseball games in the summers.

So we enjoyed the cities. But yeah, Hillsboro was a great place to grow up. The school system was wonderful. Prepared me well for college. I still know a few people there, down there once in a while. Of course my parents are gone for a long time now, but it was a great place to grow up.

Paul: Yeah. Well, listen, thank you so much for all your time here.

It’s been really informational and I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Troy: My pleasure. Thank you for thinking of me, and I hope this works out well for your non-profit!

Paul: Thank you, sir.

Troy: My friend. God bless.

Troy’s book, “Jesus Makes Salsa by the Seashore”

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Tom Landry, Saint, ‘Plastic Man’ or Neither

PAUL HECKMANN — Sun, 30 Jun 2024 21:54:52 +0000

Tom Landry and The End of the Landry Era

Facebook’s ‘Memories of Texas Football’

by Memories Inc. Exec. Director Paul Heckmann

Edited by Mike Farris

I’m going to give you the unobstructed view of Tom Landry’s history as I know it, and this one is not from 30,000 feet. There is no sugarcoating here. I will stick to the facts, which is something I think Coach would have appreciated. Thanks to all the folks from Mission, Texas, and Dallas, Texas, the NFL, his players and opponents, the NFL Players Association, and all the news outlets that helped with this article, as well as the many members at Memories of Texas Football who contributed. Couldn’t have done it without you. Thanks to the sportswriters of the day, credited where I shared their thoughts. Thanks to all the Cowboys fans who contributed to the ‘Dallas Cowboys Timeline’ on MemInc.org website. ‘Memories of Texas Football’ on Facebook is part of that organization.

It was an interesting journey. Along the way I was able to clarify a lot of misconceptions and half-truths about Coach Landry, such as the fact that he was not terminated by the then-new owner Jerry Jones on a golf course in Austin, but rather that he got the news from Tex Schramm in the film room at Valley Ranch a short time earlier. I was able to substantiate or refute several claims that have grown into “facts” over the years. I thought it would be a good idea to find out the truths while many of the people involved were still alive. I’ll keep my opinions out of this project until the summary at the end of the piece.

Introduction

I worked in the same building as the old Cowboys’ headquarters back in the day so I ran into Coach Landry and a lot of the Cowboy players quite often. Tom and his wife Alicia came to our club several times for dinner and a show, as we had lots of folk from his era performing. Also, his daughter and I lived at the same complex. I was over at her apartment one day, not knowing who her dad was when he happened to show up. Boy oh boy, did he remember me. Not sure that he wanted someone who worked at the Playboy Club of Dallas around his baby girl! RIP Lisa. I also was a manager at nightclubs like Papagayo, da Vinci, and others that Cowboy players frequented. Tom and Alicia would show up for events like the WCT Finals, which gave me even more insight into the man that many claimed to be a “Saint” and others the “Plastic Man.” Of course, neither view is entirely accurate.

I’ve interviewed folks like All Pros Thomas “Hollywood” Henderson, Bob Breunig, Charley Waters, Jerry Rhome, and others who gave me bits and pieces of Tom Landry over the years. I called them specifically for this article to give me insight into who Tom Landry really was in their view. And a lot of thanks to legendary Dallas sportswriter Brad Sham, who really opened my eyes to not only the greatness of Landry, but also the warts. We all have them.

And now, on with the show!

Who was Tom Landry?

Tom Landry was born in tiny Mission, Texas, close to the Texas-Mexico border on September 11, 1924, His parents were working folks. His dad Ray was an auto mechanic and part-time volunteer fireman. He and Tom’s mom, Ruth, raised four kids: Tom, his older brother Robert (who will come into play a few years later), and his younger sister and brother, Ruthie and Jack.

Tom grew into an excellent athlete at Mission HS, leading his team to an undefeated record his senior year, winning Regional title, which was as far as smaller schools could go back then.

A very young Tom Landry in his Mission, Texas days, about 1937 or 38. Photo courtesy Mission Historical Museum, City of Mission, Texas

The 1939 Mission football team. Tom is #38 on the back row. The photo is courtesy of Cecil Albrecht whose Dad Don Albrecht is on the second row, third from left.

Tom had already decided on his college and was headed off to what probably seemed like the Far East, the Far East being Mississippi and Mississippi State University. He had a friend there, John Tripson, who was from Madero, just south of Mission. John was part of the 1936 Mission team that went undefeated, and he was doing well for MSU, where he was All SEC and then All American. He convinced Tom to join him.

However, the Landry family felt Mississippi was too far to drive to watch him play. Remember, this was the 30s/early 40s and transportation moved at a much slower pace. That was when Tom, after talking with his family, decided that University of Texas would be the place for him.

Tom, the Longhorn. Frat brothers photo ot Tom at UT, courtesy DKE

Tom enrolled at UT in the Fall of 1941 to study industrial engineering. He attended school on a scholarship to play football and was also on the swim team. However, a couple of events were about to change the direction of millions of people from around the world, including one that affected Tom directly. The newly-formed “Axis” powers created World War II, which engulfed most of the free world, including both the Pacific and European theaters. Tom’s brother Robert, who was three years his senior, had enlisted with the Army Air Force to be a Pilot. (FYI, the Army Air Corps had become the Army Air Force in June of 1941 and would evolve into the separate branch of the armed forces, the Air Force, in 1947.) Robert passed the pilot course with flying colors and started ferrying B-17s across the Atlantic to England. On one of those flights, his plane mysteriously exploded in mid-air over the Greenland Sea, off the coast of Iceland. Robert’s body was never recovered, and the family held an empty casket funeral back in South Texas.

Robert had been the outgoing, magnetic-personality brother. Tom was much more reserved and worshipped his brother. Losing him closed Tom off even more.

Tom decided to drop out of UT after his first semester and enlist in the Army Air Force. He began his basic training at Sheppard Field near Wichita Falls and then did his preflight training at Kelly Field near San Antonio. Later, he began training at Sioux City, Iowa, to become a B-17 co-pilot. In a preview of his future life, his plane engine died during his initial flight. He helped recover the plane and landed safely. This was a man that got used to extreme circumstances quickly.

A very young Tom Landry in his early days in the Army Air Force. Courtesy the Army Air Force History. Net

In 1944, he received his orders and was assigned to Eighth Air Force at Ipswich, England, just northeast of London. It has been erroneously reported that Landry flew 30 missions, his whole crew only flew 29 abd. I followed up and this is what I found. The following is from a conversation I had with Darren Jolley of the 493^rd Bomb Group historical organization in England:

1944 – Tom flew a total of 26 missions. On the 24^th of December, he was listed as NLD (i.e., Not in the Line of Duty), so probably a hangover, and again on the 23rd of January when pilot Lt Jesse P Jacobs flew his familiarization mission. The “familiarization” mission was to take a newly arrived pilot, fresh from training, on his first combat mission with an experienced crew. The new pilot would take the right hand seat, flying as the co-pilot, and would learn everything he could from the experienced crew around him… on his return, this valuable information would then be passed on to his own crew before they all flew their own first mission together.

Looking at the Record of Sorties, you can see that Pilot Kenneth Sainz flew his first mission, #87, which was his “familiarization” flight. He then flew his first mission with his crew starting with mission # 90, which was Tom’s first mission. Mission # 106 flown by Kenneth was the one where Tom was missing and newly-arrived pilot Lt Jacobs was taken on his first combat mission before taking his own crew into combat. So, Kenneth was able to pass on his own experience to another crew.

Tom Landry B17, 26 co-pilot missions. Courtesy Darren Jolley of the 493rd Bomb Group historical organization in England

Hence, Tom has 26 missions credited against the 29 of his pilot. The other mission was when Lt Kenneth Sainz flew his own familiarization mission, leaving Tom and the rest of his own crew on the ground.

(credit Darren Jolley of the 493^rd Bomb Group historical group in England)

Tom showed himself to be an excellent co-pilot, but his heart was not in flying either for the Army Air Force or even commercially. He had his heart set on becoming an engineer. However, he had gained a huge love of flying that would stay with him all of his life.

Tom Landry points to a map when he was a co-pilot on a B17 in WWII. Courtesy EBay

1946 – Tom returned to UT for the Fall semester. He quickly worked into the Longhorns rotation, playing fullback and defensive back. He was a big part of the bowl game winners from New Year’s Day games in 1948 and 1949. He was a member of the DKE fraternity at UT and got his bachelor’s degree in 1949. In the off season of his upcoming job, he planted himself in Houston to get his industrial engineering master’s degree from University of Houston in 1952.

courtesy The History of Longhorn Sports

In 1948, Landry was drafted by both the New York Yankees of the AAFC (All-America Football Conference) and by the New York Giants of the NFL. He played for the Yankees in the 1949 season. The AAFC folded after that season, and the Yankees were not absorbed by the NFL. The Giants selected Tom in the dispersal draft.

Tom’s Bowman football card from 1952, courtesy Comc.com

The Giants ran a 6-1-4 defense to combat the run-oriented teams of the time. Under the tutelage of the head coach Steve Owen, Tom would be called upon to explain to the other players how that defense worked. He was a coach-in-training, learning what each position had to do in any given situation.

1953 presented a different challenge as the Giants lost their first three games. They ended up 3-9, including giving up the second most points in franchise history in a 62-14 loss to the Cleveland Browns. Owen was fired that season.

1954 saw Landry being selected as an All Pro. Tom played through 1955 and was a player-coach for those last two years under new coach Jim Lee Howell. His football career ended with 32 interceptions in only 80 games, with 3 TDs. He also recovered 10 fumbles for 67 yds and 2 TDs. Tom’s title was Defensive Coordinator for 1954-55, while Vince Lombardi was the Offensive Coordinator. The Giants went to three championships between ‘56 and ‘59, winning it all in ‘56.

Tex Schramm and Tom Landry, 1960. Courtesy TSHA Handbook. Image available on the Internet and included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

1959 – Clint Murchison signs Don Meredith to a five-year personal service contract with his marine company, Tecon, to lock him up for the proposed Dallas Steers (yep, that was their original name) franchise. In November 1959, they also signed Don Perkins to a personal-services contract for a $1,500 bonus and a $10,000 salary

– The Steers name was changed to the Dallas Rangers after a short time.

– Murchison doesn’t have the votes against the powerful Redskins franchise that has the South locked up.

– Clint and Bedford Wynne find out “Hail to the Redskins” is not owned by Washington, and ‘in a nutshell,” purchase it and trade it to the Skins for their vote.

– The founding investors were Clint Murchison, Jr. (45%), John D. Murchison (45%), Toddie Lee and Bedford Wynne (Director and Secretary) (5%) and William R. Hawn (5%).

Tex Schramm, Bedford Wynne, Clint Murchison and Tom Landry Courtesy Twitter. This would be in 1960, Bedrord was a partial owner. He is Angus Wynne Jr’s brother. Toddie Lee Wynne was also part owner. Courtesy Dallas Cowboy Timeline

– Clint Murchison Jr. becomes the new team’s majority owner. His first order of business was to hire Tex Schramm as General Manager and Gil Brandt as Player Personnel Director

– December 22, 1959: Clint Murchison hires Tom Landry as Head Coach of the Dallas Steers.

Tom almost took a job with the new Houston group. However he said in an interview “Tex gave me what I wanted from the beginning, complete control of the football end — anything that had to do with the players other than signing them,”

(Courtesy Memories of Texas Football, Dallas Cowboys Timeline https://meminc.org/cowboystimeline/ )

“When I took the job in 1960, I wasn’t worried in the least, mainly because I didn’t plan to stay in football. I had earned a business degree at Texas and had just added a degree in industrial engineering at Houston. I felt it was just a matter of time before I found a good job.”

—Tom Landry, Sporting News, 8/15/81

Landry’s first season was the Cowboy’s first season, 1960. That year they recorded a 0-11-1 record, not exactly a monumental start, along with five or fewer wins in the next four seasons.

1960-64

A QUICK HISTORY: Before 1964, you could go to a Cowboys’ game and, in between sips from the flask, actually follow the plays. Then Landry, already known for his defensive wizardry from his days as assistant coach of the New York Giants, installed a new defense never before seen in football. A couple of the defensive linemen would get in this bizarre, four-point crouch, looking like frogs. A couple of other linemen would be backed off the line for no apparent reason; the linebackers would jump around like they had ants in their pants; the strong safety, who we thought was supposed to be back waiting for a pass, would suddenly show up right on the line of scrimmage, and everyone on the defense was shouting stuff to one another.

Then the ball would be snapped and, instead of the defensive players chasing after the runner, they would all head to specific, predetermined territories they were supposed to cover. We’d rise from our seats, alarmed. No one was attacking! No one was pursuing the runner! What is this? They’ve all gone crazy out there! Yet something very odd happened. It seemed no matter where the runner went, there stood some Cowboy waiting to make a tackle. This would happen play after play—and a great murmur would run through the stadium, as we’d all turn to one another asking what the hell was going on.

(Courtesy Skip Hollandsworth, August 1987, D Magazine)

Landry with diminutive quarterback Eddie LeBaron, 1960. Courtesy EBay

The early 60s were rough on Tom but he endured, then:

February 5, 1964: Clint Murchison signs Tom Landry to the longest contract in sports history, a ten-year agreement.

While those first few years were tough, the Cowboys improved to 7-7 in 1965. In 1966, they finally made it to the NFL Championship game but lost to the Green Bay Packers.

1972 – Finally, no longer the bridesmaid, on January 16, 1972, Cowboys win their first Superbowl, 24-3 over the Miami Dolphins in Superbowl VI

1978 – The Cowboys win Super Bowl XII against the Broncos.

Cowboys win it all… World Champions, finally!

As this is more about the individual journey of Landry, we are going to jump ahead to the years that were important. For more info on the year by year progress of Landry and the Cowboys, go to Memories of Texas Football, Dallas Cowboys Timeline https://meminc.org/cowboystimeline/

Landry and Staubach, courtesy Washington Times

The Super Bowl years are over. Enter the 1980s:

As the 1980s went on, it was not the greatest time for Coach Landry and the Cowboys as teams began to figure out his flex defense and his over- complicated offense. The NFC Championship in 1982 was the last time Landry would coach a playoff game; the prior week had been his last playoff win.

When Bum Bright bought the team in 1984, the Cowboys went from 10-6 in 1985 to 7-8 in 1987 and finally 3-13 in 1988. Bright was becoming quickly disillusioned with Landry and the team at that point. Public outcry to remove Landry grew to a tidal wave, Tom’s single-mindedness had left him totally exposed to the reality of the situation. For three years in a row, he said he was going to resign as Cowboys coach but reneged each year after Dallas spent millions of dollars to bring in replacements. It didn’t help that “Landry treated me like s**t.”

(Bum Bright quote)

1986 – In the Brad Sham book Stadium Stories, Tex Schramm says that, in the Spring of 1986, he, Bum Bright, and Landry agreed that Landry would retire at the end of the season. According to Tex, the NFL had moved past

“Stadium Stories” by Brad Sham, courtesy Brad Sham

Landry and he would not adapt. Paul Hackett was brought in from San Francisco as Offensive Coordinator to take over for Landry and revive the stagnating offense, installing the West Coast offense. As the year went on, Landry decided he didn’t like the changes and gradually took over the offense again, bringing back much of his old offense. At the end of the season, Landry did not retire, infuriating even his closest friend, Tex Schramm.

1987 – Landry once again said that this was his last year and that he would retire. Schramm intended to hire Marty Schottenheimer to replace Landry, and had him in town, looking at houses. But when Landry held a press conference, Schramm discovered that Landry was not quitting. Brad Sham notes, “Landry then decides, without telling anyone, he is not going to quit.” Still, Tex would not fire him. He, Gil, and Tom had been hired together, and he always felt that they would leave together.

Last year, you just got a taste of the unpleasantness to come. Remember what happened? The Cowboys were 6-2 at the midway point, looking good, and then, mostly due to a defense that went bust, they lost seven of their final eight games, finishing with their first losing season since 1964. The defense gave up 337 points last season, which ranked 18th in the NFL. They finished 10th in the league in yards allowed. The Cowboys’ defense, always the final proof of Landry’s brilliance, hadn’t looked this bad in two decades.

(Courtesy Skip Hollandsworth, August 1987, D Magazine)

“Our drafts weren’t super-spectacular anymore because everyone knew the same things our guys did. The Cowboys became just another team. And Tom had diminished capacities in his coaching; he was not the coach he was earlier. People that were brought in to help, like Paul Hackett, he shoved aside. He still did everything himself. He still only had the three main assistants. And he was still calling goal-line plays.”

(courtesy Russ Russell, the former Dallas Cowboys Weekly publisher.)

Landry had been like “a bankrupt baron sitting in a castle. The electricity was off. The furniture covered. The servants gone. But he still dressed for dinner every night.”

(Courtesy Dallas Morning News’s David Casstevens)

Coach Landry on a radio show with Frank Gleiber. Found in a box at SMU deGolyer Library, Paul Heckmann

1988 – Possibly Landry’s worst year since he began. He could no longer relate to the players, the NFL had long since figured out the flex defense, and his GM and owner had expected him to retire for the past two years. They go 3-13. Once again, he did not retire as promised to, arguably, his best friend, Tex Schramm.

Japanese investors came along in the latter part of 1988 and were rumored to be making plans to purchase the club and move it to Los Angeles as the Rams were about to move to St Louis. The Rams’ last season in LA was ‘89. Bright was having massive money problems at that time and Dallas almost lost the Cowboys. Jerry Jones had entered the picture not too long after and one might say that he rescued the Cowboys from leaving Dallas.

* * There are several news reports reporting the transition of the Cowboys so I’m copying them here, as they are stated. Some overlap each other in the time frame. For your perusal:

1989 – Team owner H.R. “Bum” Bright announced that the Cowboys had been sold to Jerry Jones, a longtime friend of (Jimmy) Johnson. Bright said Jones, 46, of Little Rock, Ark., “will be the most enthusiastic owner that the Cowboys have ever had.” Announcement of the sale, rumored since Thursday, came at a news conference at the Cowboys’ headquarters at Valley Ranch, about 25 miles northeast of Dallas.

“He is as square as a graham cracker, he will do exactly what he says he will….I think the group out here is in the best hands it can be in,” Bright said of Jones. “He is going to be enthusiastic, he’s going to be interesting, he’s going to be aggressive. He’s going to do what the Cowboys need to do to be in the position they have been in the past few years.”

After Bright’s opening remarks, Jones said that Johnson will be the Cowboys’ head coach, effective intermediately. “The man that is going to be with the Cowboys is Jimmy Johnson. He is going to be the heart and the soul of the Cowboys. The greatest thing that is going to ever happen to the Cowboys is Jimmy Johnson,” Jones said.

Dallas Mavericks owner Donald Carter, himself a serious bidder for the Cowboys, said he thought he was in the thick of things a week ago, “but something happened.”

Of Jones, Carter said, “I don’t know much about him, but from what I saw tonight, I’m impressed.”

(credit to the Deseret News, an AP story, https://www.deseret.com/1989/2/26/18796703/new-cowboys-owner-fires-landry-hires-jimmy-johnson-br-arkansas-millionaire-buys-club-taps-miami-coac )

1989 – Dale Hansen, the famed sports anchor for WFAA, Channel 8, was speaking at a banquet when the (Scott Murray on a competing station) promo aired. WFAA’s news director saw it and called Hansen back to the station to try to nail down the story.

Hansen immediately called Schramm. “What’s going on?” he asked.

“Nothing,” Schramm said.

“C’mon, Tex, I’m your guy.”

“There’s no story there, Dale. There’s nothing to it.”

“I’ll call you back after the report,” Hansen told him.

“I’ll wait for your call.”

Murray’s report at ten o’clock detailed that Jones was buying the team and that Landry was going to be fired.

Hansen called Schramm back.

“Our young boy in Fort Worth has just f—ed up his entire career,” Schramm said. “That stupid f—er has made the biggest mistake of his career. He’s f—ing dead.”

“The report sounded credible,” Hansen allowed.

Schramm shot back, “Do you really think they’d sell the Cowboys and I wouldn’t f—in’ know about it?”

But Bum Bright had done exactly that.

“Bright wanted Schramm and Landry to be stuck just like they were,” Hansen said later. “He revelled in it. He called me bragging about it: ‘Schramm spent more of my money buying goddamn houses for his girlfriends, and that son of a bitch Landry treated me like s**t. To hell with both of them.’”

That afternoon, Tom Landry was at the Cowboys’ headquarters, Valley Ranch, watching game film with Jerry Rhome, a newly-hired assistant coach, when (Tex) Schramm stuck his head in the door and told the coach he needed to talk to him outside. Landry walked out, returned a few minutes later, and said nothing. He turned on the film again. A couple of minutes later, Rhome looked over at Landry and saw tears in his eyes. “You’re a fine young coach, and I’m sorry I got you into this,” Landry told him, “but they just fired me.” He wished Rhome well and left. *

(courtesy Dallas Morning News and WFAA TV)

(Jerry Rhome would stay on and tutor the future Hall of Fame Quarterback Troy Aikman. I had just interviewed Jerry for our Facebook group, ‘Memories of Football in Texas’ when I ran across that last tidbit. So I picked up the phone and asked him about that moment that Tom came back into the room from talking with Tex Schramm. He remembered it well.)

“We were sitting there going through procedures, film study and all the things coaches talk about. I remember Tex sticking his head into the film room and calling Tom out into the hallway. After a few minutes Tom came back in and said, ‘Well, they just fired me.’ And that was that.”

(Jerry was the first non-participant to hear the news. And onto the “official” firing news. At this point it appeared that Landry left Valley Ranch and headed to the airport so he could fly down to Austin to play golf and did not wait to speak to Jerry Jones.)

Brad Sham: “So, Bum Bright says to Jerry Jones, ‘I’ll fire him for you.’ And Jerry says ‘No, no, I’m going to fly down and tell him face to face.’ Well, people don’t want to hear that, because that doesn’t make Jerry a villain.”

Bright says he had wanted to sack Tom Landry in 1987 but couldn’t talk Tex Schramm into doing it. Bright said Schramm realized the Cowboys were skidding downhill fast. “Something needed to be done,” Bright said.

“A new direction was needed on the coaching staff from Tom on down. But despite the fact he appears gruff at times, Tex is a sentimentalist. He didn’t have the stomach to do what needed to be done.” Besides, “Schramm said he didn’t have a replacement ready.”

Jones continues to take criticism for firing Landry and installing Jimmy Johnson, his longtime friend and former Arkansas Razorbacks teammate, as head coach, but Bright said Jones may be getting a bad rap about having fired Landry in a cold-hearted fashion. He said Jones had insisted, two days before a news conference to announce the team’s sale and coaching changes, that there would be no deal until he personally talked to Landry.

March 1989, courtesy of Sports Illustrated

On Friday, the day before the deal was finalized, Schramm joined Bright and Jones at Bright’s offices, and Schramm called in Landry to inform him that Jones was bringing in his own coach, Bright said.

Bright also said later, a year after selling the Cowboys, that not firing Landry himself was one of his biggest regrets in life. “If I had known there would have been this much heat over Tom, I’d have taken it myself,” Bright said in the Dallas Morning News. “I know that Jerry doesn’t deserve all this stuff. It wouldn’t have been as hard for me as it has been for Jerry, because he was the one continuing. I just didn’t realize.”

(Courtesy Cowboy Owner Bum Bright and the LA Times Jan 1990 https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-02-26-sp-1290-story.html )

—

Bright then suggested to Jones that Schramm should be the one to officially tell Landry what was going on. The coach had already seen the photograph of Jones and Johnson dining at Mia’s on the front page of Saturday’s Morning News and had left Dallas, piloting his family in their Cessna 210 from Love Field to their golf-course home by the Lakeway resort, west of Austin.

Jones disagreed. “I have to face him,” he said firmly. “I can’t do this unless I face him personally.” He couldn’t do business without manning up.

That afternoon, Jones and Schramm flew in Jones’s Lear 35A to Robert Mueller Municipal Airport, in Austin, where they rented a car and drove to Lakeway. Schramm had called ahead to give Landry a heads-up: they needed to talk about the future. They found Coach and son practicing their putts at the Hidden Hills golf course in the waning light. The group retreated to an empty sales office.

Jones introduced himself to Landry, informing him, “I’m here and so is Jimmy.” It was Jones’s clumsy way of saying Johnson was in and Landry was out.

“You could have saved your plane trip down here,” Landry replied. “You could have handled this whole thing a lot better. This whole thing is just a bunch of grandstand tactics. You could have saved your gas.” His blue eyes burned holes into the Arkansan’s skull. “You’ve taken my team away from me,” he said.

It was over. No recourse, no appeal, no nada. Landry and Schramm shook hands, both with tears streaming down their cheeks. The dynasty they had built was no longer theirs. Jones later acknowledged that the meeting had not gone the way he had imagined. “I was basically just trying to say something you just can’t say,” he admitted. And he hadn’t said anything very well. He claimed it was the first time he’d ever fired a key employee face-to-face. Before, he’d let others do it for him.

(Courtesy Joe Nick Patoski, October 2012, Texas Monthly, Adapted from the book The Dallas Cowboys, by Joe Nick Patoski.)

Jones offered Landry a consulting position with the Cowboys which Landry turned down.

“It was a very difficult meeting, difficult and sad,” said Schramm, who will retain his role with the Cowboys. “It’s tough when you break a relationship that you have had for 29 years. But I am glad the ownership problem has been cleared up. It’s good for the ballclub.”…

The Actual Purchase

Jerry Jones: “Our agreement on the purchase of the Dallas Cowboys was finalized with a few notes on a napkin and a handshake,” Jones said in a statement. “With Bum, his word meant everything….” on Bum Bright

While Jones will be the majority partner, there will be five minority owners, including Ed Smith of Houston, who had 27% under Bright’s ownership. The other minority owners include Charles Wily, Sam Wily and Evan Wily.

Shortly before the news conference, Smith confirmed to the Associated Press that Landry was out. “It’s a sad deal, and Tom Landry and Tex Schramm were the only reasons I got into owning some of the Cowboys’ stock,” Smith said. “Tom should have gotten out two or three years ago. We shouldn’t have had to tell him to get out. But what are you going to do when you only have 38,000 people showing up at the stadium and you are losing hard cash?” Smith asked. “Tom just had to go, and we shouldn’t have had to tell him.”

Smith said Jones “will build an excellent team and organization here. I want to tell you, this is one class guy. He went all the way to Austin to tell Landry first hand, and he didn’t have to do that.”

(Courtesy L.A. TIMES ARCHIVES FEB. 26, 1989, AP Story) https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-02-26-sp-1040-story.html

Post Cowboys Tom Landry

Tom ended his professional career with a record of 297 wins, 185 losses and 9 ties, a 61.43% winning record. He was 22-18 in playoff wins vs. losses with his last game, a loss, coming in 1982. Landry won the NFL’s Coach of the Year award in 1966 after guiding the Cowboys to a 10-3-1 record and a berth in the playoffs. As the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys, he coached three players to award-winning seasons: Calvin Hill, AP Offensive Rookie of the Year in 1969; Harvey Martin, AP Defensive Player of the Year in 1977; Tony Dorsett, AP Offensive Rookie of the Year in 1977.

In 1990 Coach Landry was elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. He traveled a lot with Alicia. Also did a lot of work with the Fellowship of Christian Athletes (“FCA”).

Landry was diagnosed with acute myelogenous leukemia in May of 2000 and underwent chemotherapy treatments in May and November. He was released Nov. 21 but returned to the hospital in Jan 2000. He was with his family when he died on Feb 12, 2000.

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What did his players/coaches/NFL folk think of Coach Landry?

Bob Breunig

Paul, you wanted to speak about Tom Landry. And I can just say a few things on this. He’s one of the greatest men you could ever meet. I remember when I was drafted by the Cowboys. I was told by the many scouts across the country I’d be taken in the first round, and I wasn’t.

And then the second round came and went and I wasn’t drafted, but the third round came and I was drafted by the Cowboys. It’s the best thing that ever happened to me, just to be able to come to the Cowboys and be in three Super Bowls in the next four years, but mostly because we were under the tutelage of Tom Landry, just a great, great man, and a great coach.

We arrived at 21, 22 years old, the dirty dozen year 1975. And so the timing was just great to be able to be under his leadership. His flex defense concepts—I mean, they’re one of a kind in the National Football League and really were outstanding. People gave him a ton of credit for being on offense and the creativeness on the offensive side, but the defense was equally as creative and like none other in the NFL.

So it was pretty cool on Wednesday morning when he would come in and address the defensive team and give us the game plan for the week after he spent two or three days thinking about the next team that we’re going to be playing. You know, I think in those days we had 14 games and then we went to 16 games (later). Every Wednesday morning, he’d walk into the defensive game room. The whole defense would be in there and he would deliver the game plan for the week. Whoever we were playing, he had been working on it for two or three days and he was ready to give the game plan, what the defense would do against the next opponent.

It’s pretty neat being under his watch for 10 years and to be in his midst. We had a lot of great teams, went to six NFC championships and three Super Bowls. Our age group caught him, I think, at his prime. He was a great, great man.

And I think mostly it was that he was a Christian man and was not afraid to say so and he encouraged me a lot. I think of many others in their Christian faith along the way, but he was very careful about how he did that, but in a good way.

(Bob Breunig, All Pro Linebacker – Dallas Cowboys, courtesy of interview with Paul Heckmann)

Duane Thomas

…the first inkling management had of what would soon be known in polite circles as “the Duane Thomas Problem” was when Duane called a press conference and described coach Tom Landry as “a plastic man, actually no man at all.” Gil Brandt was branded “a liar.” Duane put down club president Tex Schramm as a man who was “sick, demented and completely dishonest,” to which Schramm replied good naturedly, “That’s not bad. He got two out of three.”

“Tom Landry’s attitude was one of bewilderment (re:Duane),” said Al Ward. “Tom couldn’t believe that the boy couldn’t be reached and helped. What a crime to see all that talent go to waste. Tom would just shake his head and say, ‘Why couldn’t I reach him? Where did I fail?’ ”

(courtesy Texas Monthly https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entertainment/the-lonely-blues-of-duane-thomas/ )

Charlie Waters

Coach Landry was, well, he dove into things completely. As far as taking on a player that has potential, he would take them on and really teach them properly the way to go, especially with a player that had some potential and was kind of wavering a little bit.

Yes, sir. And he was a genius in that regard. He was a genius, period about calculations and the way to stop offensive plays. He was also a genius at how he handled people. He brought out the very best in most everybody. Thomas Henderson, of course, you know, he was a great athlete, but Thomas was kind of a spoiled brat kind of guy, you know? Landry eventually got the best out of him, turned him into an All Pro.

Thomas was a great example, but there were also guys that were kind of timid who complained they would take on more (per Landry) and then they would be more forceful. There were a lot of players who had a lot of great athleticism and were not using it fully to their advantage. Coach Landry would figure out a way to bring that out in them.

He would put them on the spot and see if they would respond. And if they didn’t respond the right way, then he would show them. He was a teacher. If they did respond, he wouldn’t gloat in it, he would just give the guy a lot more responsibility.

Charlie Waters in his All Pro days. Courtesy Clemson University

That’s the way he trained players. He was just a genius. That’s the way he sold his system to us. You know, we’re the only team in the league that ran the flex defense. It’s goofy as hell.

Paul: I heard it called a lot of things, but not goofy.

Charlie: Well, there’s usually a lot of cussing involved, the down linemen with their very funny stance for the tackle that was “froglike.” Two hands down on the ground, butt up in the air. I think Ernie Stautner kind of summed it up later on when he said he’d been working it for three decades and he still doesn’t get it.

Paul: I know Coach Landry loved the way you played though. He said “If I had 45 players that tried as hard and cared as much as Charlie did, we would not lose a football game.”

Charlie: Yeah, he said something like that, didn’t he? Yeah, that’s quite a compliment. He didn’t compliment many people. He saw himself in me. He was a quarterback in college. I was a quarterback in college.

And so with me, he felt like I was a defensive back and I’m going, what? I’ve never run backwards in my life. I’ve never made a high tackle. And he was right. You know, he was right once again. I was a defensive back and I didn’t know it. He saw the quality you had, you know what I mean?

Thanks for doing this, Paul. Coach Landry was a very smart man. I mean he was a pilot in WWII. You gotta be smart to do that! He was a genius.

Good luck with this.

(Charlie Waters, All Pro Safety – Dallas Cowboys, courtesy an interview with Paul Heckmann)

Jerry Rhome

Jerry Rhome: He was about as funny as… well, you know…he was dry. And very serious all the time, serious. The greatest example of that is my first year after we came back from training camp. He called all the quarterbacks in one at a time to talk to us about our future and what he wanted us to work on during the summer, and where we are on the football team. So, we had our little talk, and he said, “Tell so and so to come in.” I said, “Coach, can I tell you something?” He said, “Of course,” and I said, “Coach, you’re a good coach, but you’re behind the times.”

Tom Landry and Don Meredith in the 1960s. Courtesy True Blue

Paul Heckmann: What was his reply?

Jerry Rhome: Well, he just looked at me. I said, “You’re being passed by. They all are throwing the ball and running and stretching their offenses out and running three receivers and one back.” I said, “You are strictly a two-receiver, two-back guy and the quarterback out of the center.” He finally decided to change about two or three years later. But when I said it to him, he said, “When you get your team, you can do it your way.” I said, “Coach, I’m sorry. I probably should’ve kept my mouth shut.” He said, “No, I like a young man that’s not afraid to step up.” And I said, “Well, I’m going to step up.” He said, “What now?” I said, “If you want me to get on the board and draw up some formations, I would love to do that.” He said, “I think I can wait on that one.”

(Courtesy our interview with Jerry Rhome by Paul Heckmann)

Sam Huff

In his autobiography Tough Stuff, Sam Huff wrote of Landry: “His theory was, don’t expect me to pat you on the back and tell you what a great job you did. You’re a pro, we expect you to do a good job, that’s what we pay you for… If you watch him on the sidelines, when a guy scores a touchdown, or kicks a field goal, or makes a big play on defense, he never even looks at him coming off the field.”

(Courtesy Sam Huff, NY Giants and Washington Redskins All Pro Linebacker https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1989/02/26/shoddy-farewell-for-a-living-legend/27985f6c-4945-430c-bc62-6cd0647df547/ )

Bob Kap (Kapoustin)

Bob was the former Cowboys kicking coach and took Tom Landry to Europe to scout Tony Fritsch among others when the new soccer style kicking was taking the NFL by storm

Dad didn’t think much of Landry. Landry was extremely bland and dad was full of piss and vinegar. Not a good mix.

(Bob Kap, Dallas Cowboys Kicking Coach (Kapoustin) RIP, Courtesy phone conversation with Mike Kapoustin, Bob’s son)

Danny White

If (Danny) White seemed somewhat mysterious to the players, he was going through enough troubles of his own trying to figure out his coach. Tom Landry’s stoic, inscrutable presence on the sideline has become a cherished part of sports folklore. Yet that image has held other meanings for Landry’s players. In his first four years on the team, White had only one conversation with Landry that touched on subjects other than technical parts of the game. Landry kept an arm’s length away from his quarterback; he never talked to him about desire or dedication. “If you wanted to look at your coach as a kind of father figure,” says White, “this was definitely not the place to do it.”

Landry believed that a head coach “simply can’t have close feelings toward his players. It’s unfortunate, but I can’t have a personal relationship with any of them because my decisions have to be based on what’s best for the team.” White says that he (Landry) and Staubach, the player Landry has liked most in all his years of coaching, weren’t that close when Staubach was playing. “What I try to do with a quarterback,” Landry says, “is work with him enough on the details of the game plans and so, on that, he can become an extension of my mind.” But not necessarily an extension of his heart – which is what plagued Danny White.

If White made a good play, Landry rarely said anything. “Once in a while,” says White, “if I was walking past him right after the play, he would say, ‘Okay, way-to-go,’ real fast, as if it were all one word.” It wasn’t that White needed constant praise, but he did want to know where he stood. How did someone win Landry’s favor? “I always wondered what he was thinking,” White says. “Was he behind me? Did he think I should do this better or work on something else? Why was he holding back? When you play for someone for thirteen years and in all that time have only a half-dozen personal conversations with him, then that circulates through your head. I’ve had a lot of time to observe him. But I don’t think he knows me well, not nearly as well as I know him.”

(Courtesy Danny White, Dallas Cowboys All Pro Quarterback and D Magazine Sept 1988 https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/1988/september/the-twilight-of-danny-white/ )

Credit to Mark Ribowsky, The Last Cowboy: A Life of Tom Landry

Thomas “Hollywood” Henderson

Paul: I know you had your good days and bad days with Coach Landry. Can you tell me a little about your time or a special moment with Coach Landry?

Thomas: I showed up at training camp as a rookie, and I just did what I was told. One of the earliest memories I have of him is that we used to run this mountain in Thousand Oaks. And here he comes. Running like Chester from

Gunsmoke. He had this funny gait. And he runs past me and he says, ‘You’re not going to let me beat you, are you?’ He does his Chester, Marshall Dillon run on me. And that was the first thing he said to me.

Thomas Henderson’s book “Out of Control”, courtesy Thomas Henderson

I didn’t take his flex defense to heart until I got into my third season. I finally realized that I couldn’t do what I wanted to do. But once I learned the flex, Pro Bowl and all conference and my own personal honors came.

So, the incident that got me fired from the Cowboys, well Paul, people don’t know the story, so I’m gonna tell you for the first time.

The story was, Preston Pearson had a rally towel (he was selling). He had played for the Steelers, and so he was trying to promote a rally towel during the Redskins game, so he gave me a towel. I’m gonna make sure they know about the towel, too. I’m on the sideline and Jerry Tubbs runs up to me, gets in my face, says, “You know, you can’t do that when we’re losing. Why are you over there mugging for the camera?” I didn’t expect Preston to come to my defense, but I sort of told Jerry Tubbs where to go.

Nobody knows to this day that I was doing a favor for a teammate. Nobody came to my defense, not even Preston. Landry called me into his office the next day and that meeting went awful. Oh, wow, I cursed at him I told him to ‘Go f himself.’ To this day, I don’t think he was gonna fire me, but my attitude gave him the rope to hang me with. And that’s why I left Dallas.

So let’s go to 1993 when I was over 10 years sober. I invited Coach Landry to my 10-year celebration (in NA/AA). He did not confirm. He wouldn’t answer my emails. Wouldn’t answer my calls. But he showed up. And so Tom Landry helped me celebrate my first 10 years in recovery. When he got to the podium—my college coach and my college position coach had already spoken—and the first thing (Landry) said into the microphone was, “Boy, if I’d have known that, (he laughs) I never would have drafted him!” ‘Cause they were telling funny stories. He learned later that I had drug problems. Being the man that he is, it’s easy to know him that day. He would have helped me rather than kick me out. You get that? Oh yeah, that’s saying a lot for him, isn’t it?

(courtesy my phone interview with Thomas Henderson, All Pro Linebacker Dallas Cowboys)

=========================================================================

My Opinion

And finally my opinion, my take on what I’ve dug up. Just as I expected, I found Landry wasn’t a saint, but he certainly wasn’t the devil. He was different things to different people. He was hard to get a read on for most and never really hit it off in a big way with any of the staff, players, or owners that he worked for during his years on the field.

I cannot imagine working for someone and hearing this, “Landry treated me like s**t” (owner Bum Bright). Or getting in a plane and leaving instead of staying to talk to Jerry Jones after GM Tex Schramm gave him the bad news that he had been fired in that film room at Valley Ranch. I wonder what would have happened if he had made a stand and demanded that he stay. Instead, he made Jerry Jones chase him down on a golf course two hundred miles away to try to keep him as an Advisor with the Cowboys. It also makes me wonder if he was ready to leave the NFL at that time.

Without a doubt, the game had passed him by. He was no longer relatable to the game or to the new age of players. It had been time to go for several years. We heard that from too many of the folks above. I remember all the sports pages in the mid-to-later ‘80s saying the same thing.

And in a strange turn of events, with all the talk about loyalty, the week before Landry was fired, Landry fired his best friend left on the coaching staff, Ernie Stautner, who had been with him for 22 years. Loyalty… a two-edged sword.

On the other hand, Landry brought us 2 NFL championships and about a decade-and-a-half of excellent football. On the field, he was revered as a good man by many who played for him, put up with by others, very few with negative things to say about the man. But to a man, no one was able to get to know Landry himself during his Cowboy years. It must have been lonely for Coach Landry.

I suspect that a lot of the good will toward Landry comes from his later years, post football, when he was so involved in Fellowship of Christian Athletes. He was a solid speaker and his belief was stout. I feel like he really opened up to nearly everyone after he left the game. In retrospect, I think at this point in his life, leaving the game was probably the best thing that could have happened to him.

1984, Tom with wife Alicia and daughter Kitty. Courtesy Texas Monthly

————-

As far as this story goes, I think this quote from the great Dallas Sportswriter Brad Sham is the best way to wrap it up:

“There is no right way to fire Tom Landry. Yet it was what everybody wanted done, and what everybody agreed had to happen. They just wanted him to step away gracefully, but he didn’t want to. The great irony to me is that is what he did with his players. He intentionally did not have close personal relationships with most of his players while he was playing because he knew there would be a day when he would have to cut them. And all of his players, 85-90%, didn’t like him when they played for him. But they looked back after they played for him, and said “Wow.” He cared about them deeply, but felt, this is the way I have to run this business. Then it happened to him, and he didn’t like it.”

(Courtesy Brad Sham on a Peter King podcast.)

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Jerry Rhome, Dallas Sunset, SMU and Dallas Cowboy Quarterback

PAUL HECKMANN — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 16:07:18 +0000

Jerry Rhome, Dallas Sunset, SMU, Tulsa and Dallas Cowboy QB

by Memories Inc Executive Director Paul Heckmann

Edited by Mike Farris

Paul Heckmann: Thanks for spending some time with Memories Inc. Can you tell me a little bit about growing up in Oak Cliff in the ‘40s and ‘50s.

Jerry Rhome: Well, I was born in ‘42, when I got to 12 or 13 years old, I was always hanging around the football field. Right up the street from me was a field that Sunset High School used, where my father coached. They’d walk over from the high school, which was about eight blocks, to use that field because the high school didn’t have a field. They had a baseball field but it was small and they had to build a big screen wall over there on the right side of the field for anybody to hit a home run over the fence, into the street, and into the houses. So, they made arrangements, and one of them was that they would all walk from the high school to this reservoir full of water and there was a football field up there.

It was right up the street from me and I’d just walk up there and I’d watch him¹ practice and then I’d catch passes from the quarterbacks. They were running a single wing offense and so it wasn’t like they were quarterbacks; they were like tailbacks and that’s what I wanted to be. I wanted to be Dick Kazmaier. You remember him? He was the Heisman Trophy winner from Princeton University in 1951.

Paul Heckmann: I do. Now tell me about the coach, Byron Rhome. Tell me a little bit about your dad.

Jerry and his dad Byron at Dallas Sunset. Courtesy Texas Sports Hall of Fame

Jerry Rhome: He was born in Cleburne, Texas, and he raised horses and rode them. They talked him into going out for the football team. He was an end. Of course, that’s football back in 1930 or ‘28 or ’27, and you know how that was. The coach of Cleburne says, “Would you mind helping me?” Dad says, “Well, I’m going off to college.” And the coach says, “Will you help me when you’re not gone to college? You seem to have a lot of good skills.”

So, he started helping the high school. Then he went off to college and, in college, he played and started helping the coaches there. He was just a born coach and a really good player, good football mind. Then he goes into the Army and he starts teaching parachuting. They said, “We think we’re wasting your talents. Will you coach our Army football team?” This was at Hondo Air base. They had these different parts of the military in this league. There was the Air Force team, the Army, the Navy, they had several Marine teams. And then everybody played everybody twice. And he went nine and one in that league.

When he came back to high school, they had him as a track coach—the high school coach had left for SMU. And so they said, “Coach Rhome, we want to make you the head coach here at Sunset High School.” Two years later, he went to the state championship with the high school team and the next year he won it.

Paul Heckmann: Now your dad, from what I read, was kind of a daunting figure on the field.

Jerry Rhome: He was just strong. He was his own man. He told you what the rules were and he lived by them. But hey, he had two state championship teams in a row. And they all loved him. I was around him. I was a kid watching everything. You know how high school kids are. He’d be off down at the other end. And he only had two assistant coaches. He’s got all these players, he’s got like 50 of them. Well, that’s not very many coaches. So sure, they screwed off when somebody wasn’t around. They’d be pouring water on each other or tripping each other, shit like that.

But he’d line them all up and he said, “You guys think that you’re getting away with all of this.

You’re not. I’ve been in the Army. I know how to shoot machine guns. I’m going to come out here and I’m going to just level all of you.” They all laughed and that kind of won them over with him. Anyway, he took them to the state championship.

Paul Heckmann: I read a story about Joe Boring² that said that on one 100-degree day in August, the water boy—Rhome’s eight year old son, you, Jerry—slipped him a tiny cup of water. When your dad saw it, he had him start running around the field.

Jerry Rhome: I went to my father and said, “Dad, I’m the one who slipped him the water. He didn’t ask for it.” And he said, “Well, I’ll let him run. He needs the exercise anyway. I’ll let him get around the field and then stop him.” (apparently Coach Rhome forgot that Boring was running and he was still running late into the night)

Paul Heckmann: We talked about your dad. Let’s talk about you a little bit. You were born at Methodist Hospital.

Jerry Rhome: Yes.

Paul Heckmann: All right, and then your elementary school was called Lida Hooe?

Jerry Rhome: Yeah, the woman’s name was Lida. And her last name was Hooe.³

Paul Heckmann: Your mom was a teacher there?

Jerry Rhome: In the [Dallas] Independent School District at that time, they would not let two people from the same family teach, so she became a substitute teacher. And Dad was a regular teacher plus a coach. But she was a substitute teacher for the whole time. Fifteen or twenty years.

Paul Heckmann: Of course, you were probably shopping at Wynnewood Village, I would imagine.

Jerry Rhome: Oh, that wasn’t even there then.

Paul Heckmann: How about Polar Bear Ice Cream?

Jerry Rhome: Oh yeah, it was there. It was kind of by itself down there on the corner. We’d ride our bikes there. They had a little pharmacy—I can’t remember what the name of that pharmacy was. That’s where I used to buy a lot of my football and baseball cards. I got a heck of a card collection. I’d ride my bicycle down there, and then we’d get out in front of the store and we’d start flipping cards. You had to be careful because everybody’s trying to cheat, you know. But I got my collection going. Then I got past all the flipping and I would mow lawns, anywhere I could make money.

I’d do it and then I’d go down to Ed Armands, and I’d say, “Mr. Armands, when are you getting your next set of cards in?” And he says, “Let me go back and look,” and he’d tell me, “Wednesday.” And I said, “Well, when will you have them on the shelf?” He says, “I’ll have them there by noon Wednesday, and I won’t tell anybody.”

Paul Heckmann: Oh, my God, so you got the first pick.

Jerry Rhome: I’d be there waiting on him and then he’d get ’em out and I’d spend every penny I had.

Paul Heckmann: Do you still have those cards?

Jerry Rhome: Oh, you bet. Oh, my goodness. They gotta be worth some money now. I’ve got ’em in a special vault. I go down there and I get ’em out every once in a while. I have ’em in books and plastic sheets. I don’t have any in my house because I don’t want somebody breaking in. I bet I’ve got a quarter of a million dollars in them.

Paul Heckmann: Oh, wow. That’s amazing.

Jerry Rhome: Name me the name of a great player and I guarantee I got him. I got three Babe Ruths and two Lou Gehrigs. They were 1939. They had cards of those guys back when they were playing but nobody saved them or anything like that. A card group that came out in the late 1930s went back and got all those cards to sell them.

Paul Heckmann: I think I used most of my cards up. Put them in the spokes of my bicycle and made it sound like a motorcycle.

Jerry Rhome: Oh, I know. I remember everybody used to do that. They’d say, “Why don’t you do it like we do?” And I’d say, “I don’t know. I just don’t. I like these cards. I don’t want to do anything with them.” I remember my mom would play bridge and, of course, there’d be like two or three cards missing from all of her decks. You know she knew where they went. That’s for sure.

Paul Heckmann: All right, so now you’ve kind of graduated from your start of that collection of cards and you became a daredevil. And you’re flying down the road. Tell me about the bicycle accident.

Jerry Rhome: Oh, there were three of us racing on a bicycle. And my grade school was right there, four blocks from Sunset High School. And, so we were racing. We took off on our bicycles. We went around the corner and one was a little bit ahead of me and I decided to pass him. And I did. Unfortunately, I forgot that these people had just gotten through building a new driveway all the way to the curb of the street. All the other driveways went to the sidewalk and then they stopped. So I hit the curb, went over—there hadn’t been a curb there before. I hit it and over the top I went. There was a little old tree that they had planted, about an inch and a half in diameter and BAM!

Well, I knew right then I had a problem, and I said to my friend, “My father’s up there at the park. Get him and tell him I need his help.” He went up there and told my father, who came down. We had the type of car that opened in the back, so he just picked me up and he laid me in the back and took me right straight to the hospital.

Paul Heckmann: I understand he used bats to hold your legs together?

Jerry Rhome: Yeah, he took a couple bats and he had tape—he always had white tape. He wrapped it around my leg. He actually took one bat and put it behind my leg (and taped them together). And he headed to Methodist Hospital. When he got there, he went straight to the phone, and he called this friend of his, a doctor who had been in the Army with him. He’d been the doctor for the Army team. And he told him what happened, and that dude got in his car and, from San Antonio, drove straight to Dallas.

In the meantime, they put me in the hospital and, of course, they were trying to settle me down with the pain and all that. They gave me a couple of KO pills and tried to put me to sleep. But then [the doctor] got there and they woke me up and they said, “We’re going to operate on your leg.” Six hours later, they brought me back into the room. I mean, it was an unbelievable operation.

Paul Heckmann: I can imagine. I understand you had a screw in your knee.

Jerry Rhome: Yeah, right above my knee, they put a pin through there. I guess it was a screw because they screwed it out. If it had been an inch lower, I would have never walked again because then it would have been my knee joint.

Paul Heckmann: That’s where it was broken, right there above your knee?

Jerry Rhome: Above my knee at my thigh bone. The cast had to be up all the way up to my chest to keep everything settled, so that I wouldn’t move anything. And then on the other leg, it went all the way down past my knee, about halfway down. And then they had a big thing between my two legs, that kept my legs spread. I woke up in the hospital. They had done all this stuff, and I didn’t even know where I was. They took me home two weeks later, put me in the bed upstairs, away from all the commotion, noise, and everything.

I was in a little room and there was a TV there. They rigged a deal over my head, where I could pull this bar and I could raise up off the bed, enough where my mother could change the sheets. After I got a little better, I started doing curls. Or, actually, chin-ups with it above my bed, so that it would give me something to do. And she had that TV set with the 13-inch screen as close to the bed as possible. And that’s it, man. I spent the summer. It happened in June, like the 2nd, and on September the 4th, they took me to the hospital again and they cut the cast off of me.

Paul Heckmann: Kind of ruined your summer there, didn’t it?

Jerry Rhome: Are you kidding? I was on crutches, so I crutched myself around the school. It was the eighth grade, going into the ninth. Everybody said, “Oh, that guy’s lame.” They came up with all these stories, like a train ran over him. It was just, you know, everybody saw me going down the hall on crutches. When I finally got off them, of course, I had no leg. It was like a beanpole.

Paul Heckmann: Then you started that next semester in basketball, correct?

Jerry Rhome: I went out for Spring basketball, and I did all right. I was good.

Charles Marshall, John Beall and Jerry Rhome, the All City bunch. Courtesy The Advocate

Then (the next year) I played football my ninth grade year in junior high, and I was trying to play quarterback, but I wasn’t very good. I didn’t have any quickness and I needed to get stronger. So I came around to baseball and basketball (that spring). I got it back. I was on my feet and I gained a whole lot of my flexibility and quickness back. I ended up leading the city of Dallas in the ninth grade junior high in basketball scoring. I averaged 14 points a game. They were seven-minute quarters. And I always could shoot the basketball. I didn’t even need my leg to shoot the basketball. I could just sit out there and shoot.

Paul Heckmann: So, you are now kind of moving on to Sunset High School, which is a whole different ball game. Tell me a little bit about that. I know you played football, basketball, and baseball.

Jerry Rhome: (jumping back a year) I played baseball during the summer, every summer, for the park leagues. And the baseball coach on our team was the baseball coach at Sunset, Abe Barnett. He came to me and said, “I’ve been watching you in basketball. You’re getting around pretty good. Come on out for the baseball team and we’ll see what happens.” Anyway, I ended up making the baseball team as an 8th grader and I got to play. That’s where it all started rolling.

Jerry at Dallas Sunset, photo courtesy Jerry Rhome

My junior year in Dallas, I made All-City as a quarterback. It was funny because I remember hearing my uncle, his name was Otto and he was an assistant coach over at Crozier Tech High School in Dallas, and he kept saying, “Byron, play your son.” Because my father was saying, “Well, I don’t know if I should play him ahead of these other two. They’re seniors, and I don’t want to show favoritism.” My uncle said, “Your son is a lot better than they are. Play your son.” And so he played me in the first game. I did pretty well in the second game. I threw, like, three touchdowns and away we went.

Paul Heckmann: So, you go through your years at Sunset, I know you got about a hundred college scholarship offers, correct?

Jerry Rhome: Yes. I really had a choice going (forward). I played baseball, basketball, and football, and I did real well in all the sports. I got (a lot of) scholarship offers, and SMU was right there over the top of it. They offered me a baseball scholarship or a football scholarship, either one. Texas Tech offered me a football scholarship. Baylor offered me a scholarship. At that time, Texas A&M was all male, and I wasn’t interested in that. I chose SMU because of Don Meredith. He was the quarterback at SMU. When I was in the 11th grade, SMU was always supplying tickets to the coaching staff at some of the high schools so they’d go to the games and see SMU playing. When SMU felt like they had a guy there in one of those high schools, they’d go recruit them.

Jerry at Sunset. Played a lot of sports. Photo courtesy Jerry Rhome

Paul Heckmann: And they had the advantage of the coach already having been given tickets.

Jerry Rhome: Oh, yeah. And now they say, “You gotta go to SMU. Dude, that’s the greatest school in the Southwest Conference.” I didn’t w we went. That guy ended up making all-Southwest Conference as a nose guard. ant to go to Texas because they’re just too many. I mean, they had 100 guys on football scholarships. It was ridiculous. There was no limit at that time. I told the coach at SMU, “If you’ll take my friend here, who’s a really good lineman, with me, we’ll come to SMU.” And he said, “Okay,”

Paul Heckmann: Who’s that?

Jerry Rhome: His name was Martin Cude. He did really well.

I did real well (in football). I was starting and I led the conference in passing and total offense. In the last game (TCU), you’ll laugh at this. Bill Meek was the head coach, I was a sophomore, and we were down 28 to 21. There was only about a minute left in the game and we were on our own 40-yard line. He put the senior quarterback in. He said he was going to graduate. I stood there, and the guy threw two passes and they were incomplete. Then I just ran onto the field.

Jerry at the next level, college ball. Photo courtesy Jerry Rhome

Paul Heckmann: You did what?

Jerry Rhome: I just ran onto the field, into the huddle. I said, “You’re out,” and I called a play. We didn’t have any timeouts, so he couldn’t call one. And of course we had third and long. I threw a pass and completed it. I drove the team all the way down to the 10-yard line. I’ll be damned if he (Meek) didn’t take me out of the game.

Paul Heckmann: Oh, goodness.

Jerry Rhome: Then the other guy took a short pass and then they ran around and he scored. (we kicked the extra point and tied them 28-28. At that point I knew Meek was gonna get fired).

Paul Heckmann: Don Meredith was probably a senior when you were a freshman, is that correct?

Jerry Rhome: Oh, he was like five years ahead of me. I didn’t ever have to compete against him.

Paul Heckmann: You had a pretty good year as a sophomore. You led the Southwest Conference in completions and attempts.

Jerry Rhome: I wasn’t all that good. I mean, I needed to get a lot better. I needed the strength of my arm. In high school, it was just different. You know, I could run and do all this. I just holly-gollied a lot of stuff.

So (SMU) they fired Bill Meek and in came Hayden Fry, who had been an assistant coach at Arkansas. Three yards and a cloud of dust. And they go 10 and 0. The Southwest Conference couldn’t stand up to them. Look at their record. Nobody could stand up to them. And so Fry he comes in there, and the very first thing in the Spring—and I’m playing baseball, too, for SMU—he got all the athletes in this huge room. And he said, “Things are going to change around here. We’re going to work during the off-season, you’re going to go on the weight program, you guys are going to go and this, this, this.”

Afterwards, I walked up to him and I said, “Coach Fry, in my scholarship offer SMU agreed that I could play baseball.” He said, “You’re not going to be playing baseball.” And I said, “I’m going to go to the athletic director and say something because that was not what we agreed on.”

He said, “Well, you’re ruining your chances to play football for me.” And I said, “I don’t care. I’m a man of my word and you need to be a man of your word.”

Paul Heckmann: I met Coach Fry. I imagine it was confrontational.

Jerry Rhome: So I said, “I’ll practice. Then I’m going to walk over there and get my baseball cleats on.” He said, “Well, you go ahead and play baseball, then you better be looking for another team.” And I said, “That’s fine with me.”

I was all that time talking to my father, and he was advising me. I said, “I told Fry, ‘A deal is a deal. I know you weren’t here, but a deal is a deal.’ He said, ‘Well, where is it signed?’

I said, ‘Well, I don’t have a piece of paper that says it, but you can ask Coach B.’ He said, ‘Alright, alright, alright, alright, alright. You go ahead and play baseball.’”

Then, when the season was over, about a week before school was out, they called me into this big room. All the coaches in SMU were in the room—baseball, football, basketball, track, whatever. They all took their turns around the big table telling me how they heard rumors that I was thinking about going somewhere. And they made this little speech about how this is going to be better for me.

I just stood up and I said, “I appreciate you guys going to the trouble to tell me all this. But, if we play the kind of football that Coach Fry has come here to play, like Arkansas, I don’t want to play. I’d rather just play baseball.” And I walked out of the room. And that was that. (SMU was over)

So, I got a summer job and then I had a couple coaches come around and talk to me at my house. They started working on my father. One day, I get a knock at the door and there’s this coach there named Ken Shipp. He said, “I’m here to talk to Jerry Rhome. I’m a coach from the University of Tulsa.” He tells us, “We throw the football, and we need somebody that can do .We got the best receivers around and we got big offensive linemen. Coach Dobbs is an ex-pro quarterback,” which he was, “and we’re in the process of trying to hire Sammy Baugh to come in and coach our quarterbacks.” It turned out they did. Took him another year and a half to do it, though, ‘cause he went to the Jets.

Long story short, when I told my father, he said, “Go to Tulsa. Go play your game.” So, I went to Tulsa and, sure enough, Sammy Baugh ended up there, and Glenn Dobbs, who had been a pro quarterback, was there. It was just right up my alley. And a little old kid that didn’t get any offers from college, from Galena Park, right outside Houston—undersized, they said; slow; 5’10”; can’t outrun anybody—comes to Tulsa as a freshman, Howard Twilley

Paul Heckmann: Oh, yeah. I remember him.

Jerry taking a breather during his Tulsa days. Photo courtesy The Advocate

Jerry Rhome: I worked with him. He proceeds to break the NCAA record for most catches and all that. If you threw the ball anywhere around him, he was gonna come down with it. He had hands of glue. Then they used one player after another to climb the pole, because the next thing they did, they got this guy that had been at the Naval Academy. He was out of there and he was looking for a place to play. They talked him into coming to Tulsa. His name was Bob Daugherty, six-foot-two-inches. He ended up being my tailback. So, all of a sudden I’ve got this great wide receiver and this tailback. We were running a spread offense, and we had guys spread out on it.

Then we had this other guy that was tougher than nails as my fullback. Basically, we were running an NFL football spread offense, the big fullback to block, the tailback that you can put in motion and run passes and run the draw and all that.

Paul Heckmann: Let’s talk about that one game, against Louisville. It was actually, in that game against Louisville, you were 35 of 43 for 488 yards and you set four more national records.

Jerry Rhome: Yeah, that sounds like it.

Paul Heckmann: As a senior at Tulsa, y’all led the nation in total offense, which was quite impressive. And then you had a victory over Mississippi in the Bluebonnet Bowl.

Jerry Rhome: I’m sure you’ll love this one. When I was growing up, I played ball in the parks in the summertime. And my old man was the one that supplied all of the sports equipment. There was this guy in one park, a park director whose name was George Owen or something—I can’t think of his last name. But he ended up going from a high school coach to the Cowboys as one of their run-around guys. George was a real talker and he said that [Tex] Schramm told him that I was going to be a free agent, and they had drafted me the year before.

At that time, if you look when I got drafted, it was like the 13th round. Okay, if you look at it closely, a guy in the 12th round was Roger Staubach. Everybody used to say, “Well, you didn’t get picked until the thirteenth round.” I’d say, “Well, did you see when Roger Staubach was picked?” And they say, “Oh, yeah, that’s right.” But we were five-year seniors, so we got drafted our junior years.

So, I got drafted as a junior and Roger was in the Navy, and he wasn’t going to be eligible to play for like two, three years after he gets out of the Navy. So, we got drafted early, and we’ve got a little asterisk by our pick. These rounds were very short then, and there weren’t as many teams in the NFL as there are today, or half the number, probably.

Paul Heckmann: Let’s go back just a bit to the end of your college career. You were actually up for the Heisman Trophy because of your consensus All- American and AP Player of the Year in the NCAA. You were the Heisman Trophy runner-up in the closest voting ever. Can you tell me a little bit about happened around the Heisman?

Jerry Rhome: Well, they did the vote, but Mr. [John] Huarte⁴ went 11 and 0 with his team, and I guess there must have been a lot of Catholics around in the vote. I came in second and defensive lineman Dick Butkus⁵ came in third.

Jerry losing the Heisman in one of the closest votes ever. John Huarte won it. Photo courtesy SI.com. 1964: Notre Dame’s John Huarte (1,026) over Tulsa’s Jerry Rhome (952) by 74 points

We were riding the bus in Washington, D. C. The three of us had been invited there and we didn’t know who was going to win. Butkus and I are just shooting the bull, and Huarte is sitting on the other side of the bus, and he’s got a couple people he’s talking to, and they’re just having a conversation. They’re talking and joking around, and I turned to Butkus and said, “Hey, Dick, you think he knows something that we don’t know?” Sure enough, he won the Heisman. I came in second.

I just got through talking to a guy on the telephone two days ago named John Huarte. We had talked before when we’d been together signing some autographs and stuff somewhere along the line. When I was coaching for the Arizona Cardinals, he had finished his football career and lived right up the street from the Cardinals facility. He used to come out and I recognized him over there on the fence, watching practice. I was the offensive coordinator, and I walked over to him and said, “Mr. Huarte, would you mind coming on to the field and watching practice? I want to introduce you?”

He said, “How do you know me?” I said, “Are you kidding? You ruined my senior year by me not winning the Heisman.” And he said, “Oh, you’re Jerry Rhome?” I said, “I’m Jerry Rhome. Where in the hell do you live? I see you walking by here all the time, watching.” He said, “I live two blocks down the street.” And I said, “Well, you just come around this gate right here and on to this field. I’m going to introduce you.” He started coming to practice and we became really good friends.

About two weeks ago, I was going through my card collection and I ran across John’s football card. I told my wife Carmen, “I’m calling him.” She said, “How do you know where he is?” I said, “I’m just going to call this old address.” I called and he answered the phone. Anyway, I wrote a book about how to raise a winning quarterback or something like that. I said, “John, do you remember me? I’m Jerry Rhome.”

Oh, I know why I called him. I called him because Dick Butkus died, so I called him and told him the story about me and Butkus talking about how he was having a lot of fun on that bus and we thought he knew something that we didn’t. He started laughing.

Paul Heckmann: So you got drafted in 1964 by the Dallas Cowboys, your home team. You gotta be pretty darn excited. Now, you were the backup to Don Meredith, weren’t you at that time?

Jerry Rhome, Don Meredith and Craig Morton with the Cowboys. Photo courtesy Jerry Rhome

Jerry Rhome: Well, I’ve got to be fair to Craig Morton. We kind of alternated. He was a dadgum good player. Absolutely. And he also was a good guy.

Paul Heckmann: I know you’re gonna have a game in Green Bay, Wisconsin in 1967. Tell me about that game. It is famous. Folks around Dallas know it very well as the Ice Bowl. Tell me about the Ice Bowl.

Jerry Rhome: Well, I don’t really remember it. I got KO’d in the Ice Bowl game. I ran some play and somebody hit me, guess a helmet hit me. Next thing I remember, I was in the locker room. Of course, I’m asking what the score was and the way it ended. You know, we lost it!

Paul Heckmann: As it turns out, probably for the best. So four years with the Cowboys, and then you went to the Browns in 1969.

Jerry Rhome: Correct.

Paul Heckmann: Then you went to the Oilers in ‘70, the Rams in ‘71.

Jerry Rhome: I was with the Cowboys four years. And this is interesting. This is going to tell you a lot about the way I feel about people in the world. J.D. Smith got traded to the Cowboys from the San Francisco 49ers my third year with the Cowboys. We went to training camp, and then we’re at a preseason game in Philadelphia. It’s Saturday night, the last preseason game, and Landry said, “Y’all take the night off. Go to the movies,” or something like that. And J.D.’s standing there in the lobby by himself. He’s black, okay? And I walk up to him and I say, “You wanna go to the movies?”

He said, “You’re asking me?” I said, “Yeah, I’m asking you.” He said, “Yeah!” So, we’re walking down the street toward the theater and he said, “I can’t believe you asked me to go to the movies.” I said, “Well, what’s the matter? You got polio or something?” And he said, “No, I’m black.” I said, “You are?” Just like that to him. I said, “Sir, I am color blind.” He said, “Well, that is so cool because you’re the first white guy that really ever paid any attention to me.” We became really good friends.

I ended up coaching Stephen McNair, who was black. I ended up coaching Warren Moon, who was black. Doug Williams was black. Chris Carter, wide receiver. I mean, I am color blind. I don’t know what color you are and I don’t care.

So, it was fortunate that I was that way. I am color blind and, in coaching, that means a lot.

Playing at that time, it meant a lot. There were so many people who were prejudiced.

Paul Heckmann: Tell me about Tom Landry. Tell me about your first impressions. What did you love about the guy? And what did you not love so much?

Jerry Rhome: He was about as funny as… well, you know…he was dry. And very serious all the time, serious. The greatest example of that is my first year after we came back from training camp. He called all the quarterbacks in one at a time to talk to us about our future and what he wanted us to work on during the summer, and where we are on the football team. So, we had our little talk, and he said, “Tell so and so to come in.” I said, “Coach, can I tell you something?” He said, “Of course,” and I said, “Coach, you’re a good coach, but you’re behind the times.”

Paul Heckmann: What was his reply?

Jerry Rhome: Well, he just looked at me. I said, “You’re being passed by. They all are throwing the ball and running and stretching their offenses out and running three receivers and one back.” I said, “You are strictly a two-receiver, two-back guy and the quarterback out of the center.” He finally decided to change about two or three years later. But when I said it to him, he said, “When you get your team, you can do it your way.” I said, “Coach, I’m sorry. I probably should’ve kept my mouth shut.” He said, “No, I like a young man that’s not afraid to step up.” And I said, “Well, I’m going to step up.” He said, “What now?” I said, “If you want me to get on the board and draw up some formations, I would love to do that.” He said, “I think I can wait on that one.”

He ran five guys on the line of scrimmage, tight end on one end of the line, tight end on the other end of the line, a guy split out on one side and one guy split on the other side, and two backs, and that’s it.

Paul Heckmann: Which I’m sure he learned under Lombardi. You know, New York, three, four yards and a cloud of dust type stuff.

Jerry Rhome: I was with the Cleveland Browns. I’d been four years with Cowboys and I hadn’t gotten to play much. They had Landry and they had Craig Morton. I’m stretching to reach six feet tall. Don Meredith and Craig Morton are both about 6’3”, 6’4”. If Staubach comes in, he’s about 6’4”. So, they all got me on size. But that wasn’t my strength. My strength was being able to call plays very well and understand the game. I actually ended up being a better player-coach than I was a player. Although in high school, in college, none of that mattered, the size and all that, but in pro ball they had the pick of the country. So, I was fighting that. And I still lasted seven years.

But what really got me was a concussion. After a game, they’d say, “Oh, you’ll be all right. You just got a headache.” They didn’t know shit. Then I tore my rotator in my arm—I was still with the Cowboys—and I went to the doctors and I told them at the end of the season, during the off season. The doctor and the trainer told me, “Well, you just throw a lot of passes.” They didn’t know what the torn rotator was.

I went ahead and played through. I played seven years in the NFL and six years for the Toronto Raptors. I used to take. . . there was a pill, I don’t know the name of that pill, but there was some kind of pill that was real quick deadening. It just numbed the joint and it worked within 10 minutes. It was indocin (Vicodan?), the pill that I used to take. I popped two indocins into my mouth and that helped. That was fast-working. Sometimes I’d take three at one time, just to get me through the game. Once it kicked in, I thought, hey, there wasn’t anything wrong with me.

Paul Heckmann: The practice facilities, when you were with the Cowboys, would’ve been at the Cowboy Towers at Yale and SMU Boulevard, correct?

Jerry Rhome: It was awful. It sucked. Even when they moved later to Forest Lane, they were very sparse. It was a metal building and some weights outside and stuff like that. But I guess it’s a lot better than Barnett Field in the early days of the Cowboys. You know, the old baseball field, that would have been. I can’t be responsible for what that owner was willing to pay. Go ask Clint Murchison. I know he bought the land out from underneath the Kansas City Chiefs. The Cowboys took it over and then, of course, the Dallas Texans moved to Kansas City.

Paul Heckmann: You’re done with your NFL pro career after seven years, and you started to look at coaching again. You’d done a lot of coaching in the past, just with other players and things like that. But where did you first start coaching?

Jerry Rhome: I was coaching with the Seattle Seahawks. It was the first year of the Seahawks, and I had these two little old guys who had played for me at Tulsa. A little old 5’10” wide receiver everybody said was too slow and too little to play football. His name was Steve Largent. I coached him at Tulsa, and I told Seattle that this guy was the best receiver in the NFL. They just laughed.

I said, “Well, he is. If you’ll bring him here, I’ll prove it to you.” The Oilers got him in the fourth round and he hadn’t played a game in the preseason. The way it worked is each team put out, like, five players that [an expansion team] could touch. Then we just go in there and say, “We want him, we want him, we want him,” but were limited as to how many they could pick.

This is my first year coaching for Seattle. I went to Jack Patera, the head coach, and I said, “Coach, you don’t really know me that well. I appreciate the fact that you’ve given me a chance coaching here. But if you want to make the biggest deal in history, make a trade with the Houston Oilers for Steve Largent.” He says, “Who?” I said, “Steve Largent. I coached him at Tulsa.” He said, “Well, let me look him up.”

He flipped through a book and he’s flipping pages and said, “Okay, here he is. Oh, no, no, he’s too little. He’s too slow.” I said, “Well, he’s just big enough to outjump you. He’s just fast enough to outrun you. And he’s certainly quick enough to beat you on any route.” He said, “You’re really high on him, aren’t you?” I said, “I coached him for three years at Tulsa. He’ll give us something to show off, because, Coach, we’ve already been to training camp and we ain’t got shit.”

We were terrible. So, he called me into the office when we came back from camp and we start talking, because I was the quarterback coach. He said, “We’ve really only got one receiver in my opinion.” I said, “Coach, go get Steve Largent.” He said, “You’re really high on him still.” I said, “I’ve been talking to him on the phone. He’s down there playing fourth string with the Houston Oilers. They don’t give a crap about it. They don’t even pay any attention to him. He’ll come in here and he’ll make you the most famous head coach ever.”

He started laughing. He said, “That’s pretty strong.” I said, “Do you think I can coach?” He said, “Oh, I know you can coach. I’ve been very, very impressed with your offense and the whole thing.” I said, “Well, bring that little sucker in here and you will really be impressed. We’re using the same offense that we used at Tulsa University.”

So, we brought him in and he looked like crap. He’s stumbling, dropping balls. I mean, he’s terrible. Just terrible. Everybody was coming by me, saying, “Oh boy, your boy is really great. Oh yeah, wow, that was really a show.” And so I went to the locker room and I said, “Steve, let’s step outside.” I said, “Steve, what the hell’s wrong with you?” He said, “Jerry, I haven’t slept in three to four days. You know, I haven’t got a father. I’m responsible for my family. I’ve got a mother, I’ve got two sisters and a brother, and my mother doesn’t have money. If I don’t make this, I don’t know what’s going to happen to them. We’re going to lose our house.”

I said, “Okay, I’ve got an idea. Where are you staying?” He said, “At the hotel.” I said, “Go back to that hotel and get yourself something to eat and go to bed. And get up and come back tomorrow morning and be Steve Largent. I will guarantee you that I will give you a chance to be Steve Largent. I run the offense.” He said, “Okay.”

And he did. He came back and he went out there, and I just fitted him into the position he needed to fit in. I was calling the plays, and I started using him, and he put on a show. Everybody came up to me after practice and said, “What did you do to that guy?” I said, “Well, that wasn’t the real guy yesterday. Today, you saw the real Largent.” He made rookie of the year.

Paul Heckmann: At this point, you’re the Seattle Seahawk offensive coordinator and the quarterback coach.

Jerry Rhome: Actually, I wasn’t the offensive coordinator. I was the quarterbacks and receivers coach. He [head coach Patera] didn’t move me up until the next summer. He said, “If you’re going to do what you’re doing, you’re going to have to be able to run the team without anybody questioning you.” Because the line coach wanted to run the ball. So, he said, “You are now the offensive coordinator. And I’ll give you a $10,000 raise.” Well, that to me was a lot. You know, I laugh about it now but, at that time, with that $10,000, I’d be making $29,000. Different times. Everything was a little cheaper back then, for sure. It was still bad. But you’re in the NFL and you’re coaching, so there’s that, too.

Paul Heckmann: Tell me about Dave Kreig.

Jerry Rhome: Oh yeah, I remember him. He came from a Division III team or something. I brought him in there and everybody looked at him as he was throwing the ball. You didn’t know where he was going to throw it. The next throw might have been up into the second floor window. He just didn’t know how to play football. We had a meeting over the weekend and they said we had to get rid of Dave Kreig. I was the one who found him. I was looking for a quarterback to back up Jim Zorn. We didn’t have any way to get one. We didn’t have anything to trade. And so I said, “You guys gave me two weeks with this kid and you’ll be shocked.” Sure enough, we did it. Two weeks later, they all said, “I’m sure glad we kept him.” And look at his history.

I remember them both. They were really excellent quarterbacks. I remember Jim Zorn because he’s left-handed. As a quarterback, whenever I was handing the ball off to the right, I used my left hand across my body to give the ball. When I hand it off to my left, I used my right hand across my body. It didn’t make any difference. The only thing that makes a difference is, when I pitch the ball out, I’d either pitch it out with my right hand or left hand. It made no difference, just whatever was most comfortable.

But when throwing it, it’s a different ball game. I’m going to throw with my right arm or I’m going to throw with my left arm. With my right hand or left hand. The ball spins in reverse when you’re left-handed as opposed to right-handed. But when you get in the ball game and you’re a receiver, you don’t give a shit how they throw it. Just throw it to me!

Paul Heckmann: Let’s move on to the Redskins. You were quarterbacks coach, and you got in a couple Super Bowls there. ’83 and ‘87. That must be a blast.

Jerry Rhome: ‘87 was a lot better team than ’83. I had Theismann up through 1985. And then I saw some film on this guy, this quarterback from Washington State. It was kinda out in the middle of the boonies. I said, you know, I’m just gonna drive up there and check this kid out.

Paul Heckmann: It was Mark Rypien.

Jerry Rhome: Yeah, Mark Rypien. I went there to the head coach of the team, and I said, “I’m Jerry Rhome.” He said, “Welcome to Washington State. What are you doing?” I said, “I’ve come to scout your quarterback, Mark Rypien.” He said, “He’s a big guy. Big ol’ good kid.” And I said, “Can he play?” He said, “Yeah, but he’s really raw.” I said—this was football off-season—I said, “Is there any way that I can get him and maybe three or four of your best receivers out there? I’d like to look at them, too.” He said, “Yeah, I’ll take care of you, coach.”

He put Mark Rypien on the field, and he had three or four receivers out there, and I was out there five minutes, and I said, “Oh, shit! How could the NFL not even know this guy’s here?” It was basically because of where he was. Washington State’s in the middle of nowhere, right? I went back to the Redskins and I said to Joe Gibbs, “Coach, there is a quarterback at Washington State.” He said, “Who?” I said, “Mark Rypien.” They said, “Oh, he’s too clumsy and slow. How many dadgum games has he played in? How many games have they won?”

The year was over and it was snowing, and I had taken him into the huge basketball pavilion. This was like three basketball courts. It was just me and him and one other little kid that I wanted to put in different places. I said, “Okay, Mark, stay here at half court and hit the backboard.” BAM! He rattled the backboard. I said, “Okay, let’s back up.” I mean, he’s at the other end of the court, and he rattled it again. And I’m going, “Oh, yes.” He’s about 6’4”, and I said, “This guy’s tall. He’s made for it.”

Jerry Rhome during his coaching days with the Washington Redskins, 1987

He played ‘87 to ‘93 with Washington. Doug Williams had left. I don’t remember what happened to Doug, whether he retired or got hurt or something. Doug was the quarterback on the ‘87 team, Super Bowl 22. In the meantime, we had drafted Mark Rypien in the 7th or 8th round, one of the last picks. We brought him in there and everybody said, “Well, we’ll see your magic, Rhome. It’s your boy.” I said, “Yeah, you’re right.” And so he played. He was MVP of Superbowl 26 in 1992, completing 18 and 33 for about 300 yards and two touchdowns. I remember a good career for him.

Paul Heckmann: Now you’re moving on from the Redskins, you go the Chargers and then to, of course, the Cowboys in ’89. And you’ve got Troy Aikman sitting there. What’s next?

Jerry Rhome: I was coaching for the Seahawks, then I went to the Redskins. And from there, I went to the Chargers where I was quarterback coach and offensive coordinator. And then I went to the Dallas Cowboys. Landry brought me in. Then they fired him (more about that in our Tom Landry Bio, how the firing really happened. Jerry was there in person, he was the only other person) and brought in Jimmy Johnson. He didn’t want to run anything but two backs, and he didn’t want to spread them out. He was really behind. Unfortunately, I told him that to his face. He kind of told me that, when you get your team, you can do what you want to do. Just like Landry. They were all very, very conservative.

In my mind, I go back to where my father was and we’re running the spread offense in high school. I’m always way ahead of everybody and the way to win is to out coach them. Well, the way you out coach them is to run an offense that makes it difficult for them to defense, plus use all your talents.

Paul Heckmann: Tell me about some of the players, like Aikman and some of those people that you coached.

Jerry Rhome: Troy was really a good guy. Had a good arm on him. UCLA. He played for the Cowboys for 11 years.

Let’s see, where did I go after the Cowboys? I went to the Arizona Cardinals. And that’s where I coached Timm Rosenbaugh. We got him in a supplemental draft. We brought him in and everybody asks, “Who the hell is he?”

It’s funny because everybody took credit for Kurt Warner; they were going to cut him. He was playing arena football and then he went to Amsterdam, in Europe. And then he went to the St. Louis Rams because I saw him on film and I said, “We need to bring this kid in.”

You know, there were a lot of quarterbacks that I spent time with. It was the same kind of story. They didn’t do well the very first day. They were nervous or this or that. And I would look at ’em and say, “Okay, that’s me. Yep. That’s me. I went through some of this. I know exactly how they feel.” I was a quarterback and I know what they’re going through in their mind. You see the pluses. He’s got quick feet. He’s got a good arm. He’s really, really sharp in his answers and he’s very aggressive and he’s confident. That’s the stuff that I look for. And that was what enabled me to do be a good coach.

Paul Heckmann: After the Rams, you went to the Falcons and the Vikings, but during your whole NFL career, who was probably one of your favorite guy or guys to work with.

Jerry Rhome: Warren Moon. I liked Doug Williams. And Dave Kreig. Jim Zorn. There really wasn’t any quarterback that I didn’t like. No stinkers. Because that was what I played and so they didn’t last very long if I didn’t like them. The ones that I did end up with by the time the season rolled around, I liked. I was like, come here, let me put my arm around you. You’re gonna be the man. Go out there and play your ass off. Which is what I got somebody to do for me. My old man.

You know what I’m saying? Somebody puts their arm around you and says, “You can do this. I’ll teach you.” Didn’t that work for you?

Paul Heckmann: Yeah, I played football through college. I was a nose guard and an offensive guard in high school, and then I was a fullback in college.

Jerry Rhome: Did you ever have a coach that put his arm around you and said you could play?

Paul Heckmann: Not exactly. Our coaches were more like Marine Corps type guys, you know.

Jerry Rhome: But deep, deep down, did any of them look at you and could you tell that any of them cared about you?

Paul Heckmann: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Coach Davis and Taylor in high school and Coach Walkoviak in college, there are several that worked with me. Even after practice, they’d make some time for me.

Jerry Rhome: Didn’t that give you confidence? And it helps you play. And it made you understand things more. You listened harder. For me, that was the secret of coaching. If you were a player and you started coaching, then you’ve experienced the playing and now you’re doing the coaching and you remember coaches who made you a better player. And that’s what I tried to live by.

Paul Heckmann: Well, it sounds like you have. Everybody talks highly of you. I haven’t seen a discouraging word ever.

Jerry Rhome: Well, they could be lying, but it’s okay. I’m bound to piss somebody off.

Paul Heckmann: Well, I haven’t run across him yet, but who knows.

Jerry Rhome: That’s a very nice thing to say, no matter what, because in the position I’m in now, I’m retired, I think back and I tried to coach players the way God wanted coaches to coach me. So, if I failed, that disappoints me.

Paul Heckmann: So are you in Atlanta now?

Jerry Rhome: We’re way past that. We left Atlanta eight years ago. I was with the Falcons and Dan Reeves had gotten fired.

And so I came to Dallas and I got to deal with the Cowboys. To make a long story short, I ended up in a place called Mansfield, which is just on the edge of the Dallas metroplex.

Paul Heckmann: I live on Swiss Avenue, down there above the fairgrounds.

Jerry Rhome: Boy, the fairgrounds. I love the State Fair grounds. I won so many teddy bears pitching coins in plates. I’d walk up and the guy would start getting the bear down. He’d take it off the hook. He says, “I got one ready for you.” You know, there was a trick to it. You’d lean over and pitch it high. You hit the back of the plate. It goes up in the air and comes down and then stays in the plate and rolls around. I probably won 300.

I went from Dallas Sunset, growing up at the State Fair in Dallas, to Tulsa. The State Fair of Oklahoma was in Tulsa, so I was about two miles away from it. I would park my car right outside the State Fair. They had a big fence, and I found a little spot where you could crawl under the fence. Then I’d walk or run about 400 yards across this field to the strip where you throw the football and all that stuff, you know to try to win prizes. Can’t remember it right now.

Paul Heckmann: The Midway.

Jerry Rhome: The Midway, yeah. When I went from Dallas to Tulsa, I did the same thing. I walked up to this one spot and started pitching coins. And this guy said, “Oh, man, are you the old football player?” They were the same guys that had been in Dallas. They’d say, “Alright everybody, get around here.” This is how you win them. They just start yelling and screaming to get a crowd because they know that the bigger the crowd, then they could start making money. When they see somebody that can do it, they say, “Oh, I could do that.” Anyway, I won. My limit was two, but then they said, “Keep pitching and we’ll keep yelling. You keep pitching. We can afford to lose a couple more teddy bears, but we need the people. Before we know it, we had a crowd. Then I went back and started selling the teddy bears to all the guys in the athletic dorm. They’d come to the room and they’d say, “Hey, you got any more teddy bears?” I’d say, “Yeah, five dollars.” They’d say, “Five dollars?” And I’d say, “Well, go out there and see if you can win one.” They’d say, “Okay, here, here’s five dollars.” They wanted one for their girlfriend.

Jerry Rhome and the Dallas Sunset Hall of Fame, courtesy Jerry Rhome and Sunset Hall of Fame

Paul Heckmann: Listen, I’ve kind of held you prisoner here for about two hours, so I think maybe we can wrap it up here a little bit. I really appreciate your time. I’d appreciate it if you let Carmen know that I appreciate her hooking us up and allowing her husband to talk on the phone.

Jerry Rhome: Yeah, she’s a jewel, she’s my gal. She’s from Cuba. She’s without a doubt the best looking woman I ever saw.

Paul Heckmann: She certainly is quite lovely! Thanks so much for giving us this time. It’s been fun.

Jerry Rhome: Yeah, no problem man. Listen, thank you for letting me rattle on Ah, it’s fun, man. You, I thought, you know what? You sounded like somebody that, that is interested in sports and interested in stories. Well I got stories!

Paul Heckmann: You certainly do. And I need to thank your sister Jo Anne for helping me get in touch with you. She did a fantastic job.

.Have a great day!

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Saran Knight – The Longhorn Ballroom Pt 2

PAUL HECKMANN — Sun, 12 Jun 2022 15:56:59 +0000

Louise Keyes sat down with Saran Groom Knight – daughter of Dewey Groom of Longhorn Ballroom fame.

MP3 download link

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Saran Knight – The Longhorn Ballroom Pt 1

PAUL HECKMANN — Fri, 27 May 2022 20:02:05 +0000

Louise Keyes sat down with Saran Groom Knight – daughter of Dewey Groom of Longhorn Ballroom fame.

MP3 download link

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Alan Kaye – Comedian and Celebrity Impressionist

PAUL HECKMANN — Fri, 01 Apr 2022 14:22:27 +0000

Paul Heckmann sat down with Alan Kayes – a comedian, celebrity impressionist and long-time opening act for the band Chicago.

MP3 download link

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Billy Bob Harris – Master of Connecting the Dots

PAUL HECKMANN — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 23:43:47 +0000

Paul Heckmann sat down with Billy Bob Harris – a roommate and biz partner with former Cowboy and Bronco BB Craig Morton. Billy Bob was quoted numerous times by Don Meredith on Monday Night Football and one of Kenny Rogers (singer) best friends. He is best known though for making connections.

MP3 download link

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Kim Harmon Gatlin – Bestselling Author of GCB

PAUL HECKMANN — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 18:15:00 +0000

Paul Heckmann sat down with Kim Harmon Gatlin – author of the bestselling book that became the ABC television series “GCB” based on her book. Kim grew up in Highland Park with her cousin Angie Harmon, of “Law and Order” and Elle/Cosmopolitan modeling fame. She was introduced to her future husband Rudy Gatlin of the Gatlin Brothers by KLIF/WFAA personality Billy Bob Harris. Learn all about her in this great interview.

MP3 download link

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John Niland – Dallas Cowboy Pro Bowl Guard

PAUL HECKMANN — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 03:05:36 +0000

Paul Heckmann sat down with John Niland – a former Iowa Hawkeye and Dallas Cowboy from the East Coast that played under Tom Landy and earned the nickname “Night Life.” Learn all about him in this great interview.

MP3 download link

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Earl Young – Gold Medal Winning Olympic Sprinter

PAUL HECKMANN — Wed, 01 Dec 2021 18:43:01 +0000

Paul Heckmann sat down with Earl Young – a former Californian turned Dallasite. From his days winning Olympic track gold to victory over Leukemia and subsequent nonprofit work, Young has led a life of consequence. Learn all about him in this great interview.

MP3 download link

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Burton Gilliam, (2 of 2)

PAUL HECKMANN — Sun, 12 Sep 2021 19:22:30 +0000

Paul Heckmann sat down with Burton Gilliam an actor, fireman, boxer and much more. In this second of two interviews, Gilliam reflects on his acting career, dating life and beyond.

MP3 download link

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Burton Gilliam, Fireman, Boxer and Famous Actor (1 of 2)

PAUL HECKMANN — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 12:09:55 +0000

Paul Heckmann sat down with Burton Gilliam an actor, fireman, boxer and much more. In this first of two interviews, Gilliam reflects on his time growing up in Dallas and the learning disability that threatened to derail any future.

MP3 download link

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Tommy Loy, Dallas Cowboy Trumpeter

PAUL HECKMANN — Wed, 18 Aug 2021 19:35:53 +0000

Tommy Loy, Dallas Cowboy Trumpeter

Tommy figuring out how to purse his lips for that first trumpet blow. He’s already figured out that right hand, two fingers equals “E”. He was a natural!

courtesy of Lindi Loy, the Loy Family, Michael Granberry of the DMN and so many fabulous memories

On Wednesday night before Thanksgiving in November of 1966, Tommy Loy’s home phone rang. On the other end of the line was Mitch Lewis, one of his Air Force buddies he hadn’t seen or talked to since 1955. Mitch told him he had been assigned the task of locating a trumpet player for a possible, experimental solo National Anthem for the league’s first color-televised Thanksgiving Day football game. He instructed Tommy to be at The Cotton Bowl around noon the next day for the tryout with Mr. Clint Murchison, the owner of The Dallas Cowboys football organization. Tommy asked if he could stay for the game, regardless of the outcome of the audition and the man assured him that would be fine. It would be the very first game Tommy ever attended.

Tommy’s solo for the Dallas Cowboys

After he performed The National Anthem for Mr. Murchison, he waited to hear if he got the job. The clock was fast approaching kickoff and he hadn’t heard if he was selected so he prepared to find a place to watch the game. Five minutes before kickoff, he got the call that Mr. Murchison wanted to go with his solo rendition, which began what would be a 22-year stint as the Dallas Cowboys solo trumpeter.

Michael Granberry, a staff writer for The Dallas Morning News, wrote “And for all the years that followed, the Loy family sat in covered seats under the press box and the Cotton Bowl and then on the 30-yard line at Texas Stadium. For many years after launching his Cowboys career, Loy’s solo was seen on television, even, one occasion, national television until pregame commercial time became so valuable that CBS decided to ax the national anthem from the broadcast.”

Granberry described Tommy’s rendition as a one-of-a-kind experience of being present at a Dallas Cowboys home game. He went onto say that his moving, distinctive trumpet follow at The Cotton Bowl from 1966 until early in the 1971 season, when the Cowboys moved to Texas Stadium in Irving.

“The quiet dignity Tommy brought to the task stood out amid the gaudy spectacle of a National Football League game. No one accompanied him, aside from the tens of thousands fans sitting in the stands,” added Granberry.

Loy’s Super Bowl V experienced is embedded in the family folklore. Singer Anita Bryant was supposed to perform the national anthem, but she got sick. The late Tex Schramm then the Cowboys’ president and general manager, told network officials: “I have a guy who can play the anthem for you.” So Loy got the call the night before the game. He and his wife, Carolyn, hopped a quick flight from Love Field to Miami just in time for him to blow his horn while wearing a white dinner jacket and black bow tie.

Whether at the Super Bowl or the Cotton Bowl or Texas Stadium, his anthem experience was, his daughter says, the thrill of a lifetime. “It was really meaningful to him. My dad was basically a patriot,” she added. “It was an honor, a privilege. He took it very seriously. And, of course, being a musician, he loved the attention, because he was a natural performer.”

Tommy and his maternal grandmother Eula Watson Long

Born in Denison, Texas in 1930, Loy was the son of a homemaker mother and a father who worked in the hotel business, managing the historic Denison Hotel. His dad died when Loy was 11, so his mother, grandmother and step-grandfather raised him.

During his SMU years, he got invited to join a jazz band called The Cell Block Seven. He enrolled in SMU in 1948, when college football great Doak Walker was still a future Heisman Trophy winner. Loy spent two years in the Air Force and finished his music education degree from SMU in 1955.

On a fall Saturday in 2016, The Sherman Jazz Museum in Sherman, Texas, held a Tommy Loy Celebration Day. Loy’s widow, Carolyn, attended the opening party, along with Lindi and Laura, two of the couples’ four daughters. “He was my dad, but I had no idea how good he was, what an influence he was on other musicians and how well-known he was,” says Lindi Loy. “His name, Loy, was even the answer to a New York Times crossword puzzle. The clue was ‘Cowboy trumpeter’. And the answer of course was Loy.

Growing up “and being a part of that whole experience, I loved it,” added Lindi, recalling fondly the times her dad took her onto the field at the Cotton Bowl, allowing her to snare the autographs of some of the teams’ most iconic players, from wide receiver “Bullet Bob Hayes to Hall of Fame defensive tackle, Bob Lilly, to free safety Cliff Harris. “It was magical,” says Lindi who’s working on a book about her dad, titled Tommy Loy: The Man Behind the Horn.

Tommy and Carolyn raised their girls in Dallas’ University Park suburb, where they graduated from Highland Park High School. “Dad worked two jobs to keep us there and Mom at home to raise us,” Lindi says.

Tommy in his regular job as an engineer at PAMS recording studio

His day job was that of a recording engineer that took him to “several well-known recording studios, one being PAMS Recording Studio in Dallas. He was instrumental in the jingle industry during the late 1950s and early 1960s. And then his night job, Thursday through Sunday, was playing his horn in his Dixieland Band.”

“That was dad’s true love,” added Lindi. “If he could have made a living playing Dixieland music, he would have done that. And the older he got, the more he played.”

Loy died of pancreatic can in October of 2002 when he was 72. “He passed away at the prime of his musical career,” Lindi says. He performed in the Edinburgh Jazz Festival in Scotland just weeks before he died.

In 2000, Loy performed his trumpet solo of the national anthem at Landry’s memorial service at The Meyerson Symphony Center at the request of the Landry family.

And then in 2013, the Cowboys did a very cool thing, Lindi says, by bringing back the tradition of the trumpet-solo anthem. The new trumpeter is jazz musician Freddie Jones. At the beginning of the 2013 season, the Cowboys invited Lindi and her sisters to a game and lined them up on a platform near Jones as he played the anthem. Each sister was given a Cowboys jersey with the No. 22, “representing”, Lindi says, “the 22 years Dad played the anthem.” One sister held the Cowboys blazer her dad used to wear; another held his trumpet.

The famous Tommy Loy trumpet and the cornet he used to play with his Dixieland band, are at The Sherman Jazz Museum, where the museum showcases horns played by such greats as Doc Severinsen, Maynard Ferguson, Clark Terry and Marvin Stamm, among others. And now, Tommy Loy’s horn will be right there with them.

Tommy with three of his daughters, Lindi, Lewelen and Laura

HI Lindi! I saw a comment you made about your Dad passing in 2002. I am sorry to hear that. I lost my father about the same time but I wanted to let you know how what a special place in our family YOUR Dad had. My father, as Cowboy season ticket holder, always loved your Dad’s trumpet playing at every home game. I remember how stupid I felt one day in high school when I finally put 2 and 2 together and realized that was your dad! Take care and have a great Thanksgiving!

Ted

Interview with Jim Long – TM Productions

Your Dad never really wanted to be a producer or an engineer. He wanted to play his horn. As good as he was with the clients and the singers, I felt that I didn’t get the best out of him – it was a paycheck to him. So I was frustrated with him a lot of the time. I left like I never reached him or could motivate him because he was more interested in playing.

He had so much talent in so many different ways but he focused on playing. We were in the business of music and we were working on an assembly line. After the original recordings were made, the fun is over and the grind started and he was at the end of the line and I’m sure got bored as hell listening to the same line for the 100^th time with a different call letter. I’ll never forget watching the Cowboys games and having someone who worked with me had such a wonderful opportunity to play and I don’t think he ever missed a note.

We were not close but he was a fun guy, he had a good sense of humor. I would always look forward to the office Christmas party and after Tom got loaded he would pick a fight and tell me all the things that he had been storing up for the year. After several years of that, I used to go up and tell him I was ready to take my medicine, and it wasn’t any fun for him.

He functioned at a pretty high level but every once in a while he would go to lunch and not come back. It didn’t happen a lot but it caused problems. He was so smart and knew about so many things.

Bernie Arendes – Air Force Buddy

Remembers Tom showing up from San Antonio, TX and joining the band. Although they were in the military, it was like being in college without the books.

He remembers Dad as a good musician who played French horn and he sang very well. He remembers that Dad was easy to work with and he ran the band when Steve Sample was gone.

They played at the officer’s club, the NCO club and the service club. Every once in a while, they would go off base and play at the Selma Country Club.

The last photo of Tommy with daughter Lindi and granddaughter Meredith Boyer

Lee Roy Jordan

What years (how long) did you play for the Cowboys?

1963 – 1976 – 14 years

What year were you inducted into the Ring of Honor?

1989 – First year of Jerry Jones ownership – Recognized him as a leader of the defense. He felt like he had a great grasped on Tom’s defense and could call the plays.

What do you remember about Tommy?

He had a warm, friendly personality – a fun guy to be around before the game.

How did you feel when you heard him play the National Anthem?

His playing was a sincere presentation of our National Anthem and showed a true allegiance to our country.

I know you were focused on the task at hand but did he help calm you and help you focus?

It really calmed me down and settled my nerves. The music was so pure and heartfelt and gave me an opportunity to relax before I went out on the field and to do my best for the Cowboys.

Tony Liscio

How long did you play for the Cowboys?

1963-1972 – 9 years – from the Cotton Bowl to Texas Stadium – When we won the Super Bowl

How did you feel when you heard him play the National Anthem?

You’ve warmed up and your adrenalin is going and then you hear that song. It’s a beautiful song, when you hear it and you take pride in it. You know you’ve got to go out there and do your best. As soon as the song is over with, then you’ve got to go and take care of business.

John Niland

We knew as soon as Tommy started playing to stand still and pay attention. He was the best.

Tommy at age 68

The sweet sounds from Tommy Loy’s trumpet drifted up into the heavens from Texas Stadium for all the Dallas Cowboy fans waiting there until he joined them, rest in peace Dad.

Tonny playing at the Cowboy game

Club Schmitz

Tommy’s father, Lewis “Lute” Lafeyette Loy

Tommy’s Baby Picture – 7 Months Old

Tommy with his mother, Hazel Loy

Tommy with his maternal grandmother Eula Watson Long

Tommy and his dad Lute Loy

Tommy with 3 of his daughters, Lindi, Lewelen and Laura

Tommy in junior high school

Tommy at age 68

Tommy at 6

Tommy and crew working at PAMS recording studio

Tommy playing the national anthem at Super Bowl V

Tommy Loy at the eulogy for Tom Landry, special request of the Landry Family, courtesy DMN

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STEVE BROOKS, ARTIST EXTRAORDINAIRE!

PAUL HECKMANN — Sat, 10 Jul 2021 23:17:29 +0000

Interview by Paul Heckmann
Edited by Tex Collins & Paul Heckmann

Paul Heckmann: How you doing, man?

Steve Brooks: Oh, they’re tearing up our street, replacing all the gas lines. I had to go out there and see what the damage was.

Paul: Oh man, that’s not good. Is that the result of the snow and everything?

Steve: No, it’s something they’ve been planning. It’s part of – they’re replacing all the old gas lines. They’ll probably get to your neighborhood soon.

Paul: Yeah. Well, that’s an interesting neighborhood over there, man. How close are you to Kessler Parkway?

Steve: Less than three blocks.

Paul: All right, okay. Did you know that John Wayne used to stay at a house there?

Steve: Rumor had it, yeah.

Paul: I’ve got photos of it.

Steve: Oh, really?

Paul: A fella named Benny Bickers lived there. He was with Warren Diamond and those guys at the turn of the century – early 1900s – and, the Three Bennies, Bennie Bickers, Benny Binion, and there’s one Ben Whitaker

Warren Diamond had some cancer and killed himself, and he had everything set up, and basically, these three guys took over part of the numbers scene in Dallas – not all of it, but no matter what Benny Binion says he did – he was full of it. And, Bennie Bickers was also a big boxer. He had part of his arm shot off when he was a kid, and he couldn’t go into pro boxing, but he became a promoter and fight-fixer and stuff like that, so I got pictures with him and Bugsy Siegel and people like that.

Later on, he bought a place there in Kessler Parkway. Well, Benny also ran the club on top of the Santa Fe Building – the University Club – and in that club, they had everybody from John Wayne to Bing Crosby to Alice Faye, you name it – all these people come through there. John Wayne would come up and stay at Bennie Bickers’s house there when he was shooting The Alamo, that was there at Kessler Parkway.

Steve: That’s great. That’s a good story. I don’t have any of my older relatives around anymore that grew up over here. They’ve passed on.

Paul: Let’s get to Steve Brooks.

Steve: If you want to.

Paul: Ha! Of course. You are a legend around Dallas. Folks may not recognize your full name as you signed S Brooks, but most everyone knows your work.

Steve: Yeah, they just have “S. Brooks.”

Paul: I love the fact you’ve got a collection up there at UNT. Let’s talk Steve Brooks there. Were you born in Dallas?

Steve: Right down the street in Methodist.

Paul: So, where’d you go to elementary school?

Steve: It was called George Peabody over on Westmoreland and Jefferson, kind of far west Oak Cliff.

Steve: It’s less than a half a mile east of Cockrell Hill.

Paul: Oh, wow. So, that’s a pretty good little drive for you.

Steve: Right away, the area was called Beverly Hills because it was – up the street from us was Sivils Drive-In. You heard of Sivils Drive-In?

Paul: You bet. Okay, where’d you go to junior high school at?

Steve: Stockard.

Steve: It was off of – it was between Hampton and Westmoreland, just north of Illinois.

Paul: So, you still had to drive. None of these were in your neighborhood.

Steve: I had to walk or take the bus. Back then, I had a bus card, so I would take the bus.

Paul: So, then you went to Sunset, right? When did you graduate from there?

Steve: That would have been in 1967.

Paul: Ouch! Vietnam! That short period for HS grads when you’re trying to figure out what to do next, huh? “Man, if I can figure out how to go to college, maybe I don’t get drafted.”

Steve: That’s exactly what it was. I had a low draft number. Well, my brother – he had a low draft number, and he went ahead and enlisted. He never saw any action.

Paul: Yeah. A lot of people did that – they signed up and got to either stay in the States, or – my roommate went to Saigon, but he never saw any action other than grenades going off outside his building.

Steve: Do you also have memories of the Dallas/Fort Worth music scene?

Paul: Some. I grew up in Waco but came up here for concerts. Moved here in late 76.

We started Memories of Texas Music. So, you’re gonna be our first one, really, for that page because yours really ties into the music scene quite a bit.

You graduated from Sunset. Did you decide to go to UNT at that time?

Steve: No, I went to Texas Tech. I thought I wanted to be an architect. My dad was pretty…well, not terribly well-known Dallas architect, but he did a lot of recognizable buildings in Dallas. I thought I wanted to be an architect, and I was pretty good at it in high school, but luckily, at Tech, there was a degree program called dual course requirement – you could do commercial art and architecture combined. I realized the architecture part was just a little too much for me.

Paul: Too much math?

Steve: The math and whatever that involved. So, I ended up transferring to Dallas Baptist College and went in the art program there and became the art student of the year in ’68. I loved it. It was really nice.

Paul: It didn’t hurt that you were good at it. A lot of people love art, and they’re not good at it.

Steve: It was okay. I just liked producing art.

Paul: So, how did you go from Dallas Baptist up to North Texas?

Steve: My professors at Dallas Baptist said, “You should try a bigger school,” and I actually was interested in North Texas because I knew they had a great art department, so I said, “Yeah, that’s what I’m gonna do, I’m definitely gonna go there.” So, I commuted there for two years.

Paul: You were at North Texas when you started working for The Iconoclast?

Steve: Well, I met Stoney Burns in ’69 while I was at North Texas.

Paul: Oh, really? What was he doing there?

Steve: Well, Stoney had Dallas Notes from the Underground.

Paul: I remember that, yeah.

Steve: A little three-story house over on Live Oak. Wow, what a hippie crash pad that was.

Paul: So, you knew Jesus Carrillo, and Stoney, and all those guys. So, you knew Kirby Warnock too, then.

Steve: Good friends with Kirby, yeah. We still do some things together.

Paul: I’ve known Kirby for a long time. We keep crossing paths. Did an interview with him last year.

Steve: I read that. It was a good one.

Paul: Thanks. Let’s get back.

Steve: In ’70…I started hanging out at the original Gas Pipe at 3910 Maple. Jerry Shults was the original owner. I started doing little cartoons and ads, flyers and stuff for him, and then, I think you might have read it in the blurb about people from Treehouse Productions were in there, and they saw some of my stuff, and they wanted me to do a concert handbill for them for a Delaney and Bonnie show at the state fair band shell. That was early ‘70s.

Paul: So, was that Delaney and Bonnie and Friends?

Steve: Exactly – with Clapton and Allman

Paul: Duane Allman. Wow.

Steve: Duane Allman and…the saxophone player from Lubbock – I forgot his name.

Paul: I can’t remember that right now, but I knew those three are the ones I could think of because they did Derek and the Dominoes right after that.

Steve: Exactly, Derek and the Dominoes.

Paul: What another great tie-in. I love it! Wow. So, you were doing Delaney and Bonnie, and that started your concert production, didn’t it – at that point?

Steve: Okay, so, I did that handbill, probably didn’t charge much. Now, Frank – actually, what they followed – I did a poster called the Lee Park Massacre. There were very few of them printed. The owners of a head shop on Henderson called Through the Looking Glass called me.

They were in the Gas Pipe and they saw my stuff. You know the Lee Park Massacre, which was April of ’70. And, Cliff Sugarman, and he started an agency and started promoting concerts.

And, we did Sly and the Family Stone, I did a handbill – they said, “Come work for us.” I said, “Sure, okay…freelance.” So, we did Sly and the Family Stone and riot and some other concerts, and then, they finally just started forming an agency and said, “Come be our art director.” I was still in school. I said, “Okay, I want to still go to school. Can I come in two days a week?” They said, “Yeah.”

Paul: So, you’ve already started your career in your chosen field while you’re still studying for your career.

Steve: Still a college student. Well, I did one more semester at North Texas, and I said, “I’ve got a good thing going for me, I’m just gonna go ahead and drop out.” So, anyway, for several months there, we were doing really good, doing a lot of shows. We did Ten Years After, we did Three Dog Night – a lot of Three Dog Night shows, quite a few – and then, Concerts West – I’m sure you’re familiar with them.

Paul: I’ve seen – I’ve had their posters on the page there.

Steve: They were big. They were really big. Concerts West was run by…I wish I could remember his name. He was a big-time promoter and film producer. I can’t remember his name. Anyway, we started jobbing work after them, so I was designing handbills for Concerts West. Then, our agency kind of folded, and Concerts West just did freelancing for us – we started designing stuff for them a whole lot from 1970 through ’75 or so.

Paul: Okay. So, were you – now, you said something about they saw your work at Gas Pipe. Had you started drawing for Gas Pipe then, or was that through Iconoclast that they saw?

Steve: Yeah, I was still doing the Gas Pipe advertising.

Paul: What year did you start with them?

Steve: Well, that would have been the Lubbock Peace Festival, which was in April of 1970. But, everything was freelance. None of them paid a salary.

Paul: “Yeah, we’ll work out a trade, don’t worry about. We got our new bongs in this week, Steve!” I remember those days pretty well.

Steve: Well anyway, yeah, Jerry Shults up at the Gas Pipe – fantastic friend of mine, and still is.

Paul: All right. So, you are doing posters – let’s see here. So, you’re about ’75 now. Now, which came first, the tennis shoes for Whiskey River or the Willie posters?

Steve: So, I ran into a promoter named Gene McLaughlin. There was another shifty character. And, he actually booked talent at The Western Place. So, Gene was also freelancing for Iconoclast, which was a stepson of Notes from the Underground. That’s how Iconoclast came along.

Steve: I’ve still got a few old Iconoclasts.

Paul: Do you really? I remember when I saw your stuff in Buddy magazine, I’m like, “I know this look, I know this artwork. Where do I know this artwork? Oh yeah, now I know.” Tell me more about Willie.

Steve: Buddy came after Iconoclast. So, Gene McLaughlin had seen my work in Iconoclast, and he says, “I’ve got a concert coming up in Abbott, Texas. It’s Abbott Homecoming, and it’s got Willie, Waylon, a bunch of people – good people.” So, I designed that particular advertising – handbills, posters.

Paul: Was that the original Farm Aid?

Steve: No, no. It was all for profit. So, that’s how I ended up designing the logo for Willie with these spurs on them, and Willie really liked it. I actually went to Willie myself and sold it to him. I met him down at his place in Austin.

Paul: What year would that have been, ’73?

Steve: Yeah, that was fall of ’73.

Paul: Okay. So, you’d done this poster for Willie, and you’ve got a tie-in to him because he likes your stuff, so what happens after that?

Steve: I just started doing a lot of stuff for him, not right away, but beginning around ’76. I did a lot of stuff for him on and off going ’73 up until ’76, and then, around ’76, they got their in-house promotion called Me and Paul Productions.

Paul: Yeah, I saw that one up there at UNT. Now, you must have done Whiskey River in ’75, though.

Steve: Well, yeah, those crooks… [Laughs] I didn’t get paid for them to use the logo because it was already Willie’s and Willie was a so-called silent partner in that operation, so they just borrowed the logo for Whiskey River. Willie had paid for the logo. It was not copyrighted for anything. It could be used for anything.

Paul: Yeah. Well, we’re still gonna make this your logo from Whiskey River. You know that, right? We will give you credit, even if they didn’t.

Steve: Well, it’s true, and I did do a couple of designs for them, and I don’t know if I got paid for them or not.

Paul: Well, it was really interesting because Willie, of course, although he was a third owner, he didn’t actually play there until Phil talked him into doing a three-night set, and the first night he was there, they had to pull him offstage because he threw his guitar at his sister, who was playing piano. I asked Phil about it, I says, “Why’d he do that?” He says, “Because we’d just done some PCP, whatever makes you angry? He said, “We’d just done that before we went onstage.” I said, “Phil, what the hell were you thinking?” He laughed and says ‘It was the 70s”

Steve: Yeah, at that time, there was quite a bit of that going on.

Paul: There was a lot of craziness, yeah. I got you, man. So, at this point, you’re probably just about to start working on Buddy magazine, right?

Steve: Well, Buddy started in ’75 if I’m remembering correctly.

Paul: So, you knew – obviously, you already talked about Kirby. You knew Ron McKeown over there too?

Steve: Ron’s a good friend.

Paul: Yeah, we’ve worked together on a couple little things. And, you became an editor there too, huh?

Steve: I was a senior editor, right.

Paul: Oh, wow. Well, that’s something very different from artwork.

Steve: Well, all I did was edit my own artwork.

Paul: Oh, okay. So, you were the art editor, not the interview editor or anything like that.

Steve: No, Paul. This is basically a title to get on the masthead. Somebody might write an article and say, “Well, why don’t you read this and tell us what you think?”

Paul: Yeah, make sure there’s not anything misspelled in it or anything like that. That’s actually an art, and I don’t have it. That’s why I send mine out to – we’ve got about four people that edit my stuff because I’m so bad at it.

Steve: Me too.

Paul: So, this was about ’76 or ’77. So, you’re doing a ton of posters, and concerts, and handbills, and matchbooks, and all sorts of stuff.

Steve: I’ve got it on a hard drive – a portable hard drive. I could burn you CDs. (FYI – we got all 600 plus of his projects)

Paul: You have so much visual items, that might be really interesting to do.

Steve: I suppose you’ve heard about the Wittliff Collection down at Texas State University.

Paul: Uh-huh.

Steve: Well, I interviewed with them a few years back. The guy came up here – drove up – and he was really interested because he saw all the stuff that I’d done for Willie, and without bragging too much, it’s substantial. But, all he did was wanna talk about himself.

He was in some band out of San Antonio. Well, anyway, I didn’t hear back from him, and I went, “Well, I guess he just forgot.” So, I knew that at University of North Texas, there was a library that did collections. I don’t know how I came across it, but I just called them, and they said, “Yeah, we’d like to see what you have.” I brought everything up there, and they just – “Wow. We want this now.” He understood exactly what was there.

Paul: There’s two places to go. One is UNT – well, actually, three. The other is DeGolyer at SMU, and also UTA. Those are the three places. But, DeGolyer or UNT are the two places, and you chose one very well.

Steve: Yeah, being an alumni, I really wanted to go with UNT. I thought about SMU. I’ve seen some of their stuff, and they’ve got a great collection.

Paul: I wish that UNT would put more of your stuff online.

Steve: Well, that was gonna… Because there’s so much of it, to digitize it and put it out there where you can actually see the digital catalog…

Paul: It’d be overwhelming.

Steve: It took so much time for them to do all that. I’ve already got it all, and I gave them the CDs.

Paul: I will try to see if we can figure out a way to show this online for you.

Steve: They’ve offered to actually do a showing. We talked about putting something together, then the pandemic happened. We haven’t really spoke about it since then.

Paul: So, let’s go back to your movie career. Honeysuckle Rose – tell me about that.

Steve: Okay, now we’re gonna jump out up to ’79. Well, the Me and Paul Productions – that’s the key factor here – I was doing it from ’76 up until this point of ’79. Paul English – great guy. Loved him to death. Well, I did some of the artwork for the ’75 picnic in Liberty Hill. So, Paul gave me permission to do Willie Nelson’s T-shirts. I didn’t print up enough. I only printed up 300. I said, “What do you want for this, Paul?” He said, “I’ll give you a dollar a shirt.” Next day, I went to the hotel and gave him $300.00 cash, and we remained really good friends. Then, Willie had me come up to Colorado – actually, had me paint a tepee for him at his place.

Steve: It was actually on the Barbara Walters special with Willie. If you look in the background, you’ll see a tepee. So, I was there painting the tepee. Then, we did the picnic in ’79. Willie had just bought the country club down there – Pedernales Country Club. So, we did that picnic – well, it was right after the picnic. So then, he wanted me to come up to Colorado to his house. He’d bought another tepee that he wanted me to paint. This thing was huge. It was in Life magazine. You should see that.

Paul: Willie’s tepee, okay. I’ve gotta look these up. This sounds interesting.

Steve: Yeah, the Life magazine it came out in was a couple years later. So, I painted that tepee. Then, after I finished that tepee, I was finishing up, and he said, “Steve, we want you to come down to Austin. We’re getting ready to start a movie. I want you to hear these two songs.” So, he played me “On the Road Again” and “Angel Flying Too Close to the Ground.” He’d just recorded these.

Paul: Oh, God – and they hadn’t been released yet?

Steve: They hadn’t been because they were gonna be in the movie. When I heard “Angel Flying Too Close to the Ground,” I just started crying. “God, Willie, that is a beautiful song.”

Paul: Both of them. I love them both, man.

Steve: He said, “Well, you gotta go on to Austin, we’re starting a movie and they need your artwork.” “Sure, I’ll do it. I’m out of here.” He gave me a wad of hundred-dollar bills – $1,600.00. I remember that well. He just reached in his pocket and started peeling them off.

Paul: Oh my God, man.

Steve: So then, I started in. “Okay, here we go – the movie, Honeysuckle Rose.” They wanted me to do this artwork and switch all the rope lettering that said “Willie” to read “Buck Bonham.” That was the character in the movie – Willie. He was Buck Bonham. So, I started doing all that work and turning in the invoices to Paul. I was freelancing for Me and Paul Productions still. And, the first invoice I gave to Paul, he said, “That’s not enough. Double it.”

Paul: Oh, my God.

Steve: They were paying Paul back for what he was doing them for. Rock and roll business – don’t you love it?

Paul: When it’s good, it’s good. When it’s not good – ugh.

Steve: When I started freelancing in the ‘70s and particular artists would say, “Can you do some artwork for me?”, I’d say, “Well, I’ll tell you what. Normally, everyone else, I want 50%, but since you’re a musician, that’ll be 100%.” I’ve been burned by far too many musicians. And, I can give you some really popular names.

Paul: I know a few myself. I’m with you. But, boy, if you do them wrong on a gig, holy cow. It’s kind of like the whole scene is screwed up.

Steve: Plus, Willie’s group – they were all packing heat back then. You did not mess with them.

Paul: Wow, guns?

Steve: Yep.

Paul: So, this is about 1979. So, you’re still working on the movie. Did you work on the movie while it was being filmed, too?

Steve: Yeah, I got to be an extra in a couple of scenes, but mostly, I was doing a lot of – I could tell you about all the things that I did in the movie.

Paul: So, you did some set work.

Steve: Yeah, we – one huge set work for Slim Pickens that was called Garland’s Day. I did the big banner in front of the stage for the last scene of the movie. I rented an apartment in Austin and painted it in the room overhead.

Paul: Wow. I’ll see if I can find that.

Steve: It’s at the very end. It’s Garland’s Day. It’s in green, and it’s a picture of Slim Pickens. He was Garland. When I met Garland – well, Slim Pickens – accused me of breaking his nose again, and that’s another story. We had a big laugh about that – I had an old press photo of him that I used. Nice guy.

Paul: That’s what Burton said, man. He said he had the best time doing Blazing Saddles.

Steve: Sure, that’s right. Yeah, they did work together.

Paul: So, what happens after ’79?

Steve: Well, gosh. Still doing stuff for Willie, but kind of winding down. I did his personal logo for stationery, just the flying tennis shoe – you’ve seen that with Willie.

Paul: At this time, were you still working with Alice Cooper in Chicago and all those guys?

Steve: No, no, not so much. Concert handbills, still doing – mostly just doing stuff for Buddy and the Gas Pipe. The Gas Pipe then started doing a lot of advertising.

Paul: I saw that. You’ve been doing their calendar since about day one, right?

Steve: Well, I think the first calendar came out in ’73. Yeah, that’s my calendar – it’s almost 50 years of calendars coming up soon.

Paul: That’s amazing. One artist doing it, all but – so, I saw there was one year you didn’t do it.

Steve: One year I didn’t do it, right.

Paul: Were they pissed off at you or something that year?

Steve: We never talked about that.

Paul: Ah, okay. We won’t bring that up, then.

Steve: They came to me and said, “We need you to do them from now on.” But, I did move to Taos, New Mexico in ’83. I was gonna take my shot at being a so-called Western artist, quote unquote. I started painting a lot, and man, did I start painting. I painted and painted every morning I got up and I was painting.

Paul: So, you’ve embarked on your second career that usually doesn’t pay a lot of money after your first one, logos, which usually doesn’t pay too many people a lot of money. You decided to become a painter in Taos, which nobody gets paid for.

Steve: I was okay. You know why? I had a gallery that – I produced a poster for the Willie Lewis guys, and it benefited the Taos Pueblo, so I wanted to just go ahead, move to Taos, paint, and sell my paintings to a gallery who’d represent me, and I was doing okay. I was eking out a living, paying bills. That’s what it is, it’s struggling artists. I could still be there, but some circumstances came up, and I had to come back to Dallas.

Steve: Well, that would have been mid-‘80s. Mostly, that’s off of something – the Gas Pipe took off. They really took off, started opening up a lot more locations. They expanded to Austin, and I went down there and painted a couple murals on their stores down there. They opened two locations in Albuquerque, so I went up there, did some murals for those locations. All in all, just – they were the main client.

Paul: So, are you working other kinds of jobs at this point to make a living?

Steve: Not until around…let’s see, around 1995. I can’t remember what year. I went to work with George Toomer. He was probably one of the best commercial graphics artists in Dallas at the time. He did all of Razzoo’s, Dick’s Last Resort.

Paul: Oh, yeah.

Steve: He almost – I tell you, Dick’s Last Resort was – basically, the visual was his creation, and all their menus… I spent four years with George.

Paul: So, you had a regular paycheck.

Steve: Oh, it was a regular paycheck. I made so much money I had to pay quarterly taxes for the first time ever.

Paul: All right, so you got a little Social Security coming in.

Steve: I do, yeah! That $500.00-a-month check – wow!

Paul: So, you worked for George there until about, what, late ‘90s?

Steve: Four years. I can’t remember the exact years, but it seems about right.

Paul: Okay. So, you get more or less to the year 2000. What goes on after that?

Steve: I’m still banging out Gas Pipe.

Paul: Okay. You have some nice connections, I would imagine, from the retail industry there with Razzoo’s and other things like that. Were you doing anything like menus or anything like that for anybody else?

Steve: No, those are the only accounts, Razzoo’s and Dick’s.

Paul: Okay. Were you doing any business advertising in these days or anything like that?

Steve: Yeah, a few things here and there, little jobs.

Paul: Sure, gotcha. So, let me ask you this. You’re in the 2000s there, and you’re kind of looking toward do I wanna retire, does an artist ever get to retire, that kind of – I imagine it’s going on in your head. So, you’re still getting a little bit of income coming from Mr. Shults and the Gas Pipe. Is that what’s going on today with you?

Steve: I’m pretty much laid back now. I lost sight in my right eye.

Paul: Oh, you’re blind.

Steve: Not totally blind. I had several operations, and they couldn’t fix it, so all I’ve got is my left eye. So, I would say from 2010 up until now, eBay. I’ve sold a lot of my extra handbills, posters, stuff I’ve collected over the years, and the supplemental income is really good.

Paul: Well, what I’ll do is – do you have your own store there on eBay?

Steve: I list as Cosmic Cow Pie.

Paul: Cosmic Cow Pie. Before the story goes – I’m gonna send it out to transcription, then it goes to my editor, so it’s still a couple of weeks away, maybe three weeks away, and then I’ll get all that information from you before we finish it up. But, let me ask you this: If you had your favorite, top five Steve Brooks artworks, what would they be?

Steve: Oh gosh, I really couldn’t say.

Paul: What was your favorite? What’s the one that you just keep – “Man, I can’t believe I did that”?

Steve: That I’ve produced? Well, gee. Nothing really that I could… You’ve probably never seen it; I’ve probably never shown it to anybody. Does it really exist? I am fond of the Willie Blue Skies lithograph, the thing that brought me to Taos.

Paul: Willie Blue Skies?

Steve: It’s a big lithograph. I’ll give you one. Yes, I will.

Paul: We will put that – whenever we open up our office, whenever we get this thing set up with the Meadows Foundation, we’ll make sure it’s there. How big is it?

Steve: Oh, I’d be happy for you to own one. Willie Nelson himself bound me to do so much work for him, and to meet the people in his circle – still friends with roadies and band members all these years. God, what wonderful, great people they are. Nobody can put down Willie Nelson’s family, not while I’m around.

Paul: And, they’re tight, too, I’ll bet.

Steve: They are.

Paul: Nobody gets in unless it goes through the whole family, I would imagine.

Steve: Well, back then – it was years ago. Nowadays, we’ve lost so many members.

Paul: Oh, yeah. Well, Willie must be, what, in the late 70s, something like that.

Steve: He’ll be 88 in May.

Paul: Eighty-eight? Holy cow. I didn’t realize he was that old.

Steve: When I was doing that tepee for him in Irving, he had me call Jerry Jeff Walker. “Who?” “Jerry Jeff Walker.” “What?”

Paul: I was a huge fan of his, man.

Steve: No, seriously, I did some artwork for Jerry Jeff. Susan, his wife, is a wonderful lady. (Jerry Jeff passed away in late 2020) Anyway, Jerry Shults has the Ridglea Theater in Fort Worth.

Paul: Oh, Jerry Shults does.

Steve: Yeah.

Paul: Ridglea Theater – I’ve heard of that.

Steve: It’s a prime – in fact, the venue for Fort Worth besides Billy Bob’s. It’s where you’d wanna book a show. Anyway, he’ll tell you more about it.

Steve: The Dallas people like Larry Hagman, he was a good guy. I remember being around him. Do you remember Wendy Moss? She was the party planner in Dallas. She had a big party one night, and Larry was there, and he was going around with a little portable fan. If you were smoking, he’d put this fan at you.

I did some work for the Walker, Texas Ranger people, and for Rob Edelson, one of the major set designers.

Paul: Did you do the logo for them?

Steve: No, no, I just did a few things for some background scenes, just a couple episodes.

Paul: Thanks so much for your time Steve. I’ve give you a call to set up a time to pick up those CD.

Steve: Thanks for doing this.

Paul: You are fondly remembered Steve, even though folks may not know your name!

All Photos in this interview are courtesy of Steve Brooks and his fabulous art collection!

The Video starts about 1 minute in with over 600 examples of his various works including calendars, handbills, hand and line drawings and posters

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MICHAEL NESMITH, ‘HEY, HEY, HE’S A TEXAN!’

PAUL HECKMANN — Thu, 17 Jun 2021 21:44:15 +0000

Paul Heckmann sat down with Michael Nesmith of The Monkees television show and band. In the interview, Nesmith reflects on his time growing up in Dallas and his journey to becoming the lead man for The Monkees.

MP3 download link

The post MICHAEL NESMITH, ‘HEY, HEY, HE’S A TEXAN!’ first appeared on Memories Incorporated, a Texas 501c3.

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THOMAS “HOLLYWOOD” HENDERSON

PAUL HECKMANN — Sat, 20 Feb 2021 23:36:47 +0000

Thomas destroys the Denver offense in the Super Bowl

Thomas “Hollywood” Henderson

Dallas Cowboy’s Pro Bowl Linebacker, Texas Lotto winner, and today, a spokesman for sobriety

By Paul Heckmann, Executive Director Memories Incorporated

Paul Heckmann: Thomas can you tell me a little bit about growing up in Austin?

Thomas Henderson: Yeah. I was born in Austin in 1953. My mother was 21 days short of her 16th birthday, which meant that she had to run from an abortionist in order to have me. I didn’t learn about that until later in life.

Growing up, I remember being in school at 3 years old with kids that were not all black. I was over on UT’s campus in a Montessori school. I think that’s how you pronounce it.

My mother worked there, and so I started school real early. But I lived in the hood. My mother and my step father had four more kids, and it got really hard.

I didn’t meet my father until I became a Dallas Cowboy, and we were really too poor. Our bathtub was a dirty clothes hamper.

Paul Heckmann: Oh boy.

Thomas Henderson: And we didn’t have toilet paper most of the time. You can imagine what kind of nightmare that was.

Paul Heckmann: I remember showing me where you used to live there back around 1990. It was pretty much a lean-to on the back of a house.

Thomas Henderson: If I were to take you in my garage right now and you saw 60 rolls of toilet paper, you would know just where it came from.

So growing up in Austin was a great experience. I was loved. I was disciplined, but again I had a little thug in me, which doesn’t hurt you over your lifetime. You get to protect yourself and you have very little fear and anxiety because basically, I can’t be intimidated. There’s some value to being thuggish.

A young Thomas Henderson, courtesy Thomas Henderson

Paul Heckmann: Tell me about school in Austin

Thomas Henderson: I started at LL Campbell Elementary. Then I went to a junior high at the University of Texas called UJH, University Junior High, for my seventh grade year. That’s an interesting thing too because I was in the top 10% of my elementary and that is the only students they were accepting. In 1966, this is like really when I didn’t know what integration meant but I was part of some of the original integration in Austin school districts. So I’m 13 and I’m meeting Mexicans and white people, and I am socializing, and having lunch, and being taught with different races whereas I had had some exposure already, but it was very interesting to go from an all-black elementary school. Of course my earlier, like pre-K stuff, I didn’t see color anyway. So, I have had a very interesting life.

Paul Heckmann: No kidding. Did you play football at Anderson after that?

Thomas Henderson: I played football at UJH. I played football at Kealing Junior High, and I played my sophomore year at Anderson. I was a tailback, and I was little upset I wasn’t on the varsity because a couple of my buddies were on varsity, but I was on the B team.

Paul Heckmann: And then Oklahoma City. How did that come about?

Thomas Henderson: Yeah. I had one of those nights where there was no toilet paper and I said, okay, all right, I gotta get out of here.

We had a twin bed with two little boys, and I was many years older than one and 12 years older than the another. These little guys were making a mess of the mattress and the sheets. I had a grandmother in Oklahoma City, and so I made a call. I asked her ‘Can I come live with you? I gotta get out of here’. And my closest friend had been shot right next to me and killed, so it was about time.

Paul Heckmann: So sorry to hear that Thomas.

Let’s move on to Oklahoma City. I believe you went to school up at Douglas. Now you were playing tailback down in Austin. Did you play tailback again at Douglas?

Thomas Henderson: I couldn’t play football my junior year because there’s a rule, and I didn’t know this was a rule until it hit me in the face. If you move from one border state, Texas to Oklahoma, a border state, without your parents, you’re ineligible to play football for a year. So, I played basketball my junior year at Douglas High School, and I worked at the Post office at night.

Paul Heckmann: What did you do at the post office?

Thomas Henderson: I loaded trucks, Spiegel catalogs, all the heavy items, and the bags of mail. I drove trucks back to the yard, driving 18 wheelers with just a driver’s license, but I was pretty good at my job. I loved my job because I got a car and I was making a car payment, and insurance, and going to high school. I took welding. I’m also a certified welder. They asked me did I want to film the games on Friday nights, and I said absolutely. So, I was a sad 17-year-old, not able to play my junior year, but I filmed every game that season.

Paul Heckmann: So, you now have reached Douglas High your senior year. Tell me about that.

Thomas Henderson: Well, the football coach had been watching me and he took me over to the scales. I was 210 and I was 6’2” and he asked me what position do you play? I said quarterback.

Paul Heckmann: Of course.

Thomas Henderson: Coach says, throw a post. I threw the worst duck you’ve ever seen.

Paul Heckmann: And then you found your calling.

Thomas Henderson: Yes, defensive end. I made All-City, first team, All-District first team, and I was honorable mention All-State.

Paul Heckmann: Considering it was a one year thing, that’s pretty amazing. So you are done with football and you have now graduated from Douglas.

Thomas Henderson: No, I haven’t. Let’s go back a bit.

Paul Heckmann: Okay.

Thomas Henderson: The only thing that kept Thomas Henderson back is he flunked a geometry class at Anderson High School in Austin.

We were getting ready for graduation. I got a call from the principal’s office to go see the counselor, and I went to see the counselor and she said, according to your transcripts, you need a geometry to graduate. I’m sad to tell you, I’m sad to tell you that you can march but you gotta go to summer school. I went home and told my grandmother, and she immediately took me out to Putnam City, and registered me for summer school geometry.

And when I turned 18 in March of 1971, I had to go down to selective service and register, and the Vietnam War was still raging in ’71.

Paul Heckmann: Oh yes.

Thomas Henderson: I went from 1A, which means going to Vietnam to 1S, which is school, and that’s the only thing that kept me from going to Vietnam, me flunking geometry.

Paul Heckmann: That’s quite amazing actually.

Thomas Henderson: My life has been that way.

Paul Heckmann: I seem to remember you were going to go into the Air Force.

Thomas Henderson: I was, because it was an alternative to the Army drafting me. At that time I didnt know what that geometry class did for me, so I went straight down to the Air Force after I got that letter from the Army that was basically saying, hey partner, you’re 1A and get ready for a physical buddy.

I went to the Air Force and took the test. Of course, they said what do you wanna be? I said I wanna be a pilot. I wanna fly. Listen to this. With my testing, they go you might be able to do this. I’ve always been a bit smarter scholastically than people would think. That was a summer to always remember.

Paul Heckmann: Okay. You were about to join the Airforce, but you didn’t actually finish the signup for it.

Thomas Henderson: Well, all over the news about that time was the plane that went down at Wichita State, they lost most of their football team.

I couldn’t wait to find out how to get a letter to that school. I’m gonna go through summer school. I can go to that school. I went and took the ACT, and I was ready to go, I got a Dear John from Wichita State. They don’t have anybody on the football team, and they don’t want me. I thought it was over right there. So, I went on to some school and I passed the Geometry and the Air Force was in my rear view mirror.

Thomas at Langston. Courtesy Thomas Henderson

On a Tuesday, I was talking to a buddy and he said man, why don’t you go up to Langston? I’m thinking, ‘okay’ and I caught a ride up to Langston, Oklahoma because I had wrecked my car. I got to Langston University on a Tuesday. The coach was surprised. He said ‘Oh man, I saw you before. You’re a good player. I thought Oklahoma State would get you.’

I go ‘Really, yeah.’ So, I get to Langston on a Tuesday and that Wednesday, the starting defensive end broke his ankle and so I was on the starting lineup to play Kentucky State. I had four sacks and about 12 tackles, and that guy never got his job back.

Paul Heckmann: Oh no. Now, you were still a walk on at this point?

Thomas Henderson: I was a walk on at Langston University. That’s not like saying I’m a walk on at Alabama of course.

Paul Heckmann: When did you get your scholarship there?

Thomas Henderson: I never got a scholarship at Langston. I was always on financial aid. You have to remember in ’71, my mom is a maid. My mother was making minimum wage, $1.25 maybe at the time.

There’s no biological father at all. So, I was on financial aid for four years at Langston. There were 33 scholarships, but it was a very political thing, and I had figured out that I was gonna do better on financial aid than on scholarship with all the rules of the scholarships.

Paul Heckmann: Sure.

Little All American Team for Thomas, courtesy Thomas Henderson

Thomas Henderson: Around my junior year when I was consensus All-America and NAIA All-America, and Little AP All-America, my coach finally said, do you want a scholarship?

Paul Heckmann: And you say, ‘I’m doing just fine.’

Thomas Henderson: I played four full years at Langston University, and I was never on scholarship.

Paul Heckmann: Best years of your life too, weren’t they?

Thomas Henderson: Yes, they were.

Paul Heckmann: There is something special about the ‘smaller’ (not Power 5) schools. Speaking as a Texas A&I Javelina, I understand completely.

So, 1975 comes around and the NFL draft comes up. Before you were drafted, what were you hearing about the teams that wanted you?

Thomas Henderson: Not much. You know, I got a letter from the Rams and the Cowboys. I don’t know if you remember Tank Younger?

Paul Heckmann: Oh yes. Big star with the Rams.

Thomas Henderson: Paul “Tank” Younger played at Grambling. He was one of the first African-American players to play in the NFL. He was a scout and he worked in the front office of the Rams. I think he was one of the first to work for the organization. He had come to Langston twice.

You know, Red Hickey and Gil Brandt had both come to Langston. I had run track my junior year so they had noticed. I ran a 9.5 100 yard dash

Paul Heckmann: Wow.

Thomas Henderson: Now, we weren’t running meters during those years.

Paul Heckmann: That is still blazing fast.

Thomas Henderson: I ran a 4.4 forty in a cow pasture. I actually ran a 4.5 barefooted. I didn’t have the equipment. I mean this is not bragging. This is like we simply didn’t have the equipment.

Paul Heckmann: I understand.

Thomas Henderson: Tom Landry didn’t want to waste a No. 1 draft pick on a guy from a HBCU. That’s ‘historically black colleges and universities’.

So, Red Hickey and Gil Brandt challenged him and said he’s the best player on the board. So, Landry went with his scouts and picked me 18th in the first round on January 29, 1975. I was in a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere and the phone rang. My roommate answered and he said, hey man, it’s the Cowboys. The Cowboys are on the phone. There was no watch party. My family wasn’t dressed up like we were going to church. There were no big party. There was nothing except them calling you. I got on the phone and it was Gil Brandt, and he said we just picked you in the draft, 18th, in the first round. He says can you get to the airport. I said, well, yeah, probably. He goes okay. This was about 10:00 in the morning. He hollered back at his secretary. Hey, what time is the nonstop coming from Oklahoma City and she goes 3:30. He said can you be there at the airport by 3:00. I go yeah, I can be there by 3:00 and that was my draft day.

Paul Heckmann: A far cry from the greenroom they have today.

The Dirty Dozen Cowboy draft, Photo courtesy Ryan Bush

So you are now part of arguably the best draft the Cowboys ever had, the Dirty Dozen. Who were some of the other folks that you were drafted with?

Thomas Henderson: Oh man, Randy White, Burton Lawless, Randy Hughes, Scott Laidlaw, and Percy Howard who was a free agent, Rolly Woolsey from Boise State, Pat Donovan. Even Mike Hegman was drafted that year, but he stayed one more year at Tennessee State. I’m getting a little Alzheimer’s here. I can’t run down the whole draft list. Mitch Hoopes was the punter of that group. So, 12 rookies made the team that year.

Paul Heckmann: That’s absolutely incredible. I don’t think we’ll ever see a draft like that again.

Thomas Henderson: You know, when you look back at all that, it was a tremendous time for Tom Landry and the Dallas Cowboys. By the time I became a starter, we were the No. 1 defense in ’77 and ’78.

Paul Heckmann: I think D. D. Lewis was one of your line backing buddies.

Thomas Henderson: Yep and Bob Breunig. He was another one of the rookies that year. So, in ’77 it was Breunig, Lewis, and Henderson. We were playing some good ball. We had the No. 1 defense two years running.

Paul Heckmann: That was an incredible time for Dallas.

The Triplets, LB trio in the mid 70s, courtesy Thomas Henderson

Thomas Henderson: If I could go back and change anything, I’d shut my mouth with Coach Landry. Look at what happened to the Cowboys in ’80, ’81, ’82, ’83 without me. I just think that what I brought to the team and to the defensive scheme would have just put it over the top, you know, made it better.

Paul Heckmann: One thing that you did that was absolutely incredible in that day was you returned kicks. I still remember seeing a linebacker returning a kickoff and then all of a sudden, you’re back there and all of a sudden you scored a touchdown on a return, and then to top it off you dunked it over the goalpost.

Thomas Henderson: Well, you know, I did that in my rookie year in 1975 against the Cardinals. I went 97 yards, and I didn’t know what to do with the ball. So, I went and dunked it over the goalpost.

Paul Heckmann: First person to ever do that I believe.

Thomas Henderson: Absolutely. The first person in the NFL to ever do that, and then I did it against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in ’77, and then in ’78, I picked off a 68 yard interception against the Rams. It was the fourth quarter, and I didn’t have any left in the tank, and so I finger rolled over there. That grass is different from an Astroturf.

Paul Heckmann: So, I got a question for you. Who gave you the Hollywood moniker?

Thomas Henderson: I think it was Robert Newhouse who was teasing me because I came to work one day in a limo with a fur coat on.

Paul Heckmann: I remember the fur coat.

Thomas and his fur coat! Courtesy Thomas Henderson

Thomas Henderson: I had been out all night. So, I came to work with a fur coat in a limo. So, it was either ‘Damn Fool’ or ‘Hollywood’.

Paul Heckmann: You went with the latter. Makes sense to me.

So, who were some of your best friends on the team?

Thomas Henderson: You know, all of them. I loved all of the guys I played with. Playing football for the Dallas Cowboys was a very intimate affair. Charlie Waters, Bob Breunig, Randy Hughes, Too Tall, Harvey Martin, Jethro Pugh, Rayfield Wright, John Fitzgerald, Roger Staubach, so many, Tony Dorsett and all the others.

Me and Preston really kind of went at it because we were competitive, and so I’m not sure we loved each other that much.

Paul Heckmann: Preston Pearson?

Thomas Henderson: Yes. Bruce Huther didn’t like me but overall, I loved all those men. Lee Roy Jordan – are you kidding me? I mean I just loved these guys and I’ll tell you this Harvey Martin, Larry Cole, I mean, they’re great. I’ll tell you what. I loved Charlie Waters like he was brother.

When I wrote my book Out of Control, I didn’t snitch on anybody. I didn’t tell who was having affairs on their wives. I didn’t tell who smoked marijuana. I didn’t tell who did cocaine. I didn’t tell who was on steroids or pain medications. I didn’t tell who supplied the Black Mollies every Sunday for every last one of us. So, when I wrote the book Out of Control, it solidified that when I came back to Dallas and asked teammates to come talk about my life story, everybody came because I had surprised them that I wasn’t mad at anybody, that I was a friend even in my darkest day.

Paul – (I added links at the bottom of the Interview for purchasing ‘Out of Control’)

Paul Heckmann: Oh yeah. I’m gonna move away from the NFL for just a second because about ’78 and ’79 was about the time that Wyetta was a Playboy Bunny over at the Playboy of Dallas.

Thomas Henderson: Yes.

Paul Heckmann: I remember you telling me that you were also a judge there for the bunny search.

Bunny Wyetta and Eddie Rabbitt. Courtesy Dallas Morning News and SMU deGolyer Library

Thomas Henderson: That’s true, but I met Wyetta before all that ever happened. I met Wyetta Boswell in Seattle. Actually, the first game played in that stadium in Seattle was the Cowboys versus the Seahawks. She went to school with Too Tall and Mike Hegman. I met her in ’76 in Seattle and in the off season of ’76, she moved to Dallas.

Paul Heckmann: I see.

Thomas Henderson: So we had been dating for a while, maybe a year, before the Playboy Club came to Central Expressway.

Paul Heckmann: So, how did you become a judge for the bunny search?

Thomas Henderson: I was Thomas Henderson.

Paul Heckmann: Ha! That’s enough for me.

Thomas Henderson: I’ll tell you one thing. Let’s go deeper than that. I had another girlfriend named Carol, and she was trying to be a Bunny as well. Wyetta just couldn’t stand her.

Paul Heckmann: Oh boy.

Thomas Henderson: Oh boy. That’s right. So, Wyetta sabotaged her chances of being a bunny.

Paul Heckmann: Ah, the bunny fangs. Yeah.

Thomas Henderson: Bunny hate, you know. I tried to get both of them in there.

Paul Heckmann: It is what it is.

Thomas Henderson: It is what it is.

Paul Heckmann: I remember you telling me that you and Too Tall actually own some nightclubs.

Thomas Henderson: Oh yes. I had a little bit of a partnership out in South Dallas at a club called Plush Pup. I had a piece of that. I actually made more money in the club business than I did working for the Cowboys.

Then we had Playmakers Plaza off of Knox and Henderson that was extremely successful because I would have a theme. We’d have a party for Too Tall and we’d have a party for Billy Joe DuPree, Tony Dorsett. We’d have a different party for a different player every week on a Thursday night, $10.00. It was outrageous in ’76, ’77, ’78, and you couldn’t go out. Ten bucks and no return entry. We did well. I did well in the club business. I actually made more money in the club business than I did in my Dallas Cowboy contract.

Paul Heckmann: Wow, that’s amazing. About this time was also when the Super Bowl came up I believe the one with Dallas and Pittsburgh. Probably one of the most famous things that have ever happened in the Super Bowl history was the rhetoric between you and Terry Bradshaw. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

Thomas Henderson: Well, let’s go back. We played in three super bowls during my time. So, Super Bowl X we played the Pittsburgh Steelers and I ran the opening kickoff in that game. Then we won the Super Bowl in New Orleans against the Denver Broncos in Super Bowl XII and then was the Super Bowl XIII January of 1979. The background of that story was that Gil Brandt was talking to me about Terry Bradshaw, and he knew a little bit about Bradshaw’s relationship with the head coach of the Steelers that he screamed at him a lot and called him stupid in front of the team. Then he told me a story that Terry Bradshaw really wanted to go to LSU but he ends up going to Louisiana Tech. I’m sitting there wondering why are you giving me a history lesson on Terry Bradshaw, and finally he said he didn’t score very well on the ACT.

Thomas demonstrating his spelling skills! Courtesy ESPN and OTL

So, he was feeding me this stuff and then I sort of came to the conclusion. I had taken the ACT, and the SAT, and I’d done very well. Believe it or not, Thomas Henderson was a good student. I came up with that line calling Bradshaw dumb. I said he couldn’t spell cat if you spotted him the C and the A but that was all sort of poetry from failing the ACT, him wanting to go to LSU as opposed to Louisiana Tech. That was by accident or by design, but that’s how I came up with that line.

Paul Heckmann: So, also about this time, you were starting to do a lot of cocaine.

Thomas Henderson: Yes. A lot.

Paul Heckmann: I believe you also told me you were doing cocaine on the sidelines using Vicks Nasal Inhaler, I believe.

Thomas Henderson: I had to. I had burned a hole through my septum. I didn’t cut up my cocaine very good for it to go down smoothly. I started just snorting rocks. I did whatever I could push up in there and I developed a hole in my nose, and it ached. It gave me migraine kind of headaches. The only way that I could kind of keep it around was to put it in a Vicks Inhaler, and I started doing that late ’78. In other words, I wasn’t even really trying to get high. It was just my nasal passage was sore and about every four or five days, this giant scab would come out and then it would be freshly ready for me to cake more coke in it. It was so bad that when I went to my first rehab in ’81, I had surgery. I had surgery to close a big hole in my nose.

Paul Heckmann: That is some serious addiction. We will come back to that.

Tell me about your relationship with Coach Landry because there was a little bit of love and hate in there, wasn’t there?

Thomas Henderson: I never hated the man. He didn’t understand me. I didn’t understand him. I tended to talk back. I would say stuff like what do you mean by that and it would stun him. It was like a private talking to a general. When Too Tall was drafted, he took a picture with Landry. When Randy White was drafted, he took a picture with Landry. Landry never took a picture with me. When I went up to the Cowboy office, when I came to Dallas, he didn’t come out of his office to say Hi. I resented that.

Paul Heckmann: Was that intentional on his part?

Thomas Henderson: I don’t know. I had a giant beard and nobody said a word to me in those apartments up on Forest Lane. We get to Thousand Oaks and he tells me, you’ve got to shave that beard off and I told him, ‘I’m not shaving my beard. What’s that got to do with playing football?’ So, that was my first run in with him.

Coach Landry on a radio show with Frank Gleiber. Found in a box at SMU deGolyer Library

And then we were traveling and he said you’ve got to have a sports coat and a tie. So, I put on a sports coat, a white shirt, and a shoestring. I found a shoestring that I made a tie and I tied it around.

Paul Heckmann: So, you’re rubbing it in.

Thomas Henderson: Then he wrote like a five page, typed, memorandum of what a tie is. So, I went and bought ties but I still just tied them in knots. You know, okay, you wanna a tie and I just put like two knots. So, I bugged him a little bit. I tell you what he did for me. He coached me. He really taught me how to play the edge. He loved defense. He even let me do some things that he didn’t let anybody else do.

I remember a moment when we were in a meeting and I kept doing something on I think it was the flex defense, but it was a flex weak, and I kept doing something besides what the defense was designed to do. But I kept making the play because I would see something, and I would react to the play. Landry said this in front of the entire defense, he had never said it before, and he hadn’t said it since. We were in a dark room. There’re 20 of us in there. Landry had a way of really getting a little red light on a screen. Look at you. See where your hips are right here. See where your feet are. You’re and so he’d be doing that.

So I had been doing something and it was bugging him. This stunned the whole room. He said, ‘Thomas, now look. This is not my defense right here. See this move you’re making right here. This is it my defense’, but then I’d make like a tackle for a 4-yard loss. He looked at it four or five times. He goes, you know what Thomas, ‘I don’t like you doing this but I’m gonna let you do it’. You could’ve like slapped everybody in the room. It was like what? What do you mean you’re gonna let him do it?

Paul Heckmann: Oh man. Did you ever come in and kind of heal the relationship with Coach Landry?

Thomas Henderson: I did. It was a while because I never did live in Dallas again. When I left Dallas in ’79, I never came back. I haven’t been back since (except for events), but I had been communicating with Coach Landry early in my recovery from drugs and we exchanged letters. I made some amends, and he actually came to my 10-year-sober celebration in Austin and spoke, and I have it on film. I’m currently working on a documentary that’s gonna be very powerful but yeah.

As a matter of fact, I did something so funny with him. We’re at Barton Creek, and there’s a golf tournament. So, me, Too Tall, Rayfield, Harvey and Randy White, and a couple more Cowboys were over there. Landry walks over to us and he goes, ‘Wassup’? I said, ‘Wassup? What the f**k?’ and I just fell over laughing. Landry knows the term Wassup? What? (Thomas laughing).

Paul Heckmann: Oh man. That’s healing right there.

So, let’s go back here to the end of your Cowboy career. How did it end from your perspective?

Thomas Henderson: Well, it was awful. We were playing the Redskins and me and Landry had had a bad year anyway. He wasn’t very kind to me. He never acknowledged that I just had a daughter. He never asked me what my kid’s name was. That off season, I had contracted Hepatitis B from a big old plate of seafood I ate in Hawaii, while we were out there doing the super teams. So, I spent three weeks in Baylor Hospital in isolation. So, I came to training camp barely weighing 200 pounds.

So, ’79 was a really rough time for me in training camp. I had a hiatal hernia and I had to sleep sitting up. I had a tough training camp health wise. I wasn’t healthy. I went from hepatitis to hiatal hernia and we broke training camp, or the end of the preseason or something, Landry called me up for a meeting. I go in and he goes ‘Okay Thomas, if you miss any more practices, you’re not gonna start.’

So, then I got the flu like fourth or fifth game of ’79. We were playing the Steelers. I’m barking like a dog. I had been in the hospital where people who came to see me, I thought they were going to the moon because I was so messed up with that infectious hepatitis. So, I come to work one day and I am barking like a dog. My nose is running, not from cocaine, just from this virus I had, and I’m coughing like I’m gonna throw up my tonsils. The doctor happened to be there. He gave me some antibiotics and told me to go home. He says, ‘go home before you give this to everybody in here. Go home.’

I go home, and I come to work the next day better. He gave me a boatload of antibiotics, and we go to Pittsburgh. I’m getting ready for the game and Landry, with all the things in the world that he could work on, comes over to my locker and says ‘You know our deal. So, you’re not starting today,’ and I lost it. I got up and confronted him in his face and I told him if I don’t start today, I’m not playing. I just didn’t understand the way he was treating me. I had had these health issues that year from hepatitis B, to hiatal hernia, to the flu. I even think I had an ankle injury. I mean it was a tough year, and I gave him a few choice words, and he walked away and came back, and said okay, you win this one. That was basically the end of my career right there with him.

Paul Heckmann: Then at some point, you were traded to San Francisco. Is that correct?

Thomas Henderson: No, I didn’t accept the trade. I mean they got a draft choice for me, but I quit. I retired. I didn’t know what I was doing. I didn’t know the legal ramifications. I didn’t know this or that. I just refused to go to San Francisco. So, I just quit. So, I sat out the rest of that year. It was the 11th week anyway.

Paul Heckmann: This was 1979 season?

Thomas Henderson: Yeah.

Paul Heckmann: Okay. Did you ever go to San Francisco to play?

Thomas Henderson: Yeah. I went to training camp in San Francisco in 1980 and made the team, and played about five games, hurt my neck. I think I broke my neck out there the first time. I was doing way too much. I was smoking crack, and I was a mess. Bill Walsh caught wind of it and that was that.

So one day, what’s his name? His last name is Owens. He came to my house with my shoulder pads, and helmet, and my shoes, and a big check, and said ‘they let you go’.

Paul Heckmann: Wow.

Thomas Henderson: Before he walked away, he said ‘Call the Oilers. They’re interested’. So I called Bum Phillips. He said there’s a first class ticket for you. So I got on an airplane and left Wyetta and my daughter in Redwood City, California, and I flew to Houston. I played the rest of the season with the Oilers and went to the playoffs against the Raiders. But that team didn’t like me at all. I had no friends in that locker room.

Paul Heckmann: Why did you not have any friends in that one? Was it just a personality conflict or the fact that you’re coming in mid-season?

Thomas Henderson: No, I just think the Oilers hated the Cowboys period.

Paul Heckmann: That I can understand.

So, you’ve gone through this season with Houston. Like you say, things didn’t exactly work out for personalities. I believe you went to Miami after that didn’t you, with the Dolphins?

Thomas Henderson: I did. I went to rehab. The Cowboys played a role in that. You know, John Wooden called me and says ‘Get your butt down here. I wanna meet you’, and he met me on Northwest Highway in a parking lot. He says ‘Everybody knows what you’re doing.’ He said ‘Come on, cut it out. You’re gonna kill yourself. Stop it.’ and he gave me a card for rehab in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Scottsdale. Turned out it was a mental institution.

Paul Heckmann: Oh boy.

Thomas Henderson: Besides getting the nose surgery, which I got while I was in there, they let me out to go have surgery; it was really a psychiatric hospital. It didn’t really do me any good with my thinking about my use of drugs. So, I get out of there and a friend of mine drove my Mercedes over to Scottsdale and brought me some weed.+

So, in the parking lot pulling out from the rehab, I smoked the biggest joint you’ve ever seen going down the highway.

I thought to myself, ‘Yeah, I think I’m gonna make it.’

Paul Heckmann: So you got out of that rehab and now you’re heading over to Miami to the Dolphins.

Thomas Henderson: Yeah, I went back to Dallas and Shula had a connecting flight. He wanted to see me. I went out there blitzed to see him. He didn’t notice that I was high.

So I went out to see him at the airport and he said, ‘Yeah. We’d love for you to come on to training camp.’ So, I went down there and God blessed me as a good football player. I made that team easy. I had caused a little bit of a problem because they had traded for Brudzinski from the Rams, and they had Gordon on the other side, and they asked me would I play inside. I go ‘Absolutely not.’ I was gonna start. I didn’t know which side, and then I broke my neck in the last preseason game of 1981.

Paul Heckmann: And that was the end of your NFL career.

Thomas Henderson: Right there, yes sir.

Paul Heckmann: Just like that. Boom.

Thomas Henderson: You know, I know how lucky I am. I should’ve died. I broke cervical vertebrae 1. It burst, the top vertebrae where your heartbeat and your breathing is. So, not only should I have died, I should not be upright. I should be paralyzed from the neck down. I should be just a head attached to something. God has had his hand on me for a long time, and I finally realized that about 35 years ago when I cut out the crap and got my life together.

Paul Heckmann: At this point, you had surgery on our neck?

Thomas Henderson: No, they put me in a prehistoric body cast. I looked like a brother in a bowl. I looked like a bowl of baby spinach with my afro sticking out from my neck, and my arms sticking out. It was awful.

Paul Heckmann: How long were you like that?

Thomas Henderson: Six months. I smelled like a Billy goat for six months.

Paul Heckmann: Oh man, oh gosh. So, you get out of this cast and I know that about 1983 really all hell broke loose but with that hell that came, you really ended up with a new lease on life. Can you kind of tell me first about the hell and then how that really redefined you at that point?

Thomas Henderson: Yeah. The phenomenon of the thing called the blackout is where my life was at that time. So, if I was to try to tell you what happened, I’d be lying. I know that I ended up smoking crack with a couple of girls and I don’t remember meeting them. I don’t remember smoking with them. I don’t remember anything. I was in a total blackout because that’s where my addiction had taken me. So, I woke up in the Long Beach Jail accused of sexual assault while smoking crack. I’m still trying to figure that one out. So, it was extremely embarrassing.

I had a lawyer friend actually come extract me from my pipe. I bailed out of jail, and went back to my apartment, and got some more coke. A lawyer buddy of mine wouldn’t stop knocking on my door, and came and got me, and took me to Orange, California to a place called the CARE Unit. I met this Dr. Stone and Dr. Joseph Pursch. For seven months, I just learned how to do life differently and I was faithful, and clean and sober. Then I had to do 28 months in the California Department of Corrections. There was plenty of cocaine, and heroin, and marijuana there too, but I refrained.

I’ve been sober 35 years.

Paul Heckmann: That’s quite amazing. It really is. All the kudos to you my friend.

The next time you and I talked, around ’90. I was down in San Diego working as Chief Purser/Hotel Manager on a cruise ship that was in drydock just under the Coronado Bridge. Myself and the Captain had direct phones to us. I pick it up and ‘Hey Paul, it’s Thomas.’

I remember thinking it was someone playing a prank on me so I told you to give me your number and I would call you back. I had told my folks about my drinking and they remembered that I knew you and had read a story about you getting sober and somehow got hold of you.

Thomas and Paul out in Costa Mesa, California with Thomas’s trusty pickup. Photo courtesy Paul Heckmann

We talked, I took a day off an drove up to Costa Mesa to see you. And we reminisced, told each other our horror stories, you told me the story you noted above, said that if I really wanted to get sober you had a bed waiting for me at Sierra Tucson. So I walked away from a job I was really good at making a lot of money – and after 7 years, that turned out to be the last time I ever stepped foot on a cruise ship.

On Jan 30th 2020, I will have 30 years with nary a drop to drink. And I owe you a big part of that.

Thomas Henderson: That was all you man.

Paul: 4 months of rehab later, I move back to Dallas, rooming with old buddy Warren Wilkes who have been sober for a couple of years by then. You were in the process of moving to Austin, so I drove down to help unload you Uhaul.

So the next part of your life. You get clean and sober, living the ‘boring life’ and doing pretty well at it. Then all of a sudden, you win the lottery.

Thomas Henderson: Yep.

Paul Heckmann: $28 million I think it was.

Thomas Henderson: Yeah.

Paul Heckmann: In the Texas lottery. I remember thinking at that time going, man I am so glad he is so straight at this particular point in his life because otherwise, he wouldn’t have made it.

Thomas Henderson: Yeah, that would’ve come with a coffin if I’d of won it at any other time in my life. I can report that I still have some of that money, and I live a good life. I do have regrets and some things I would do differently if I could do it over but I can’t. But I’m grateful to God and my family and friends, and the program that I have remained in these 35 years for helping me because I didn’t have enough sense to do this by myself. So, life is good. I’m working on a documentary that’s gonna be out within a year. It’s gonna be a big documentary on my life story.

Paul Heckmann: Hey, Thomas man, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. I really do and Thank you so much for your time, sir.

And before we end this, congratulations on your Doctorate from Langston. Very impressive.

Thomas: Thank you so much!

“Out of Control – Confessions of an NFL Casulty” by Thomas Henderson available at Amazon and other
https://www.amazon.com/Out-Control-Confessions-NFL-Casualty/dp/0671663267

Barnes and Noble: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/out-of-control-thomas-henderson/1121660149

Thomas Henderson is available for speaking engagements. Send him a tweet at @hollywoodhend

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DALLAS COWBOY’S TIMELINE

PAUL HECKMANN — Sat, 20 Feb 2021 23:21:25 +0000

Dallas Cowboys Timeline

by Paul Heckmann, Executive Director. Memories Incorporated

Credit given to:

Dallas Morning News, DallasCowboys.com, Pro Football Reference, Texas State Historical Society, ESPN, Wiki, UTA Digital Libraries, an innumerable number of Cowboy fan sites, Dallas Public Library, and several hardcore Cowboy fans.

This is a ‘living document’ and will be updated as new information is proven and added

1959

Clint Murchison signs Don Meredith to a 5 year personal service contract with his marine company Tecon to lock him up for the proposed Dallas Steers franchise. In November 1959, they also signed Don Perkins to a personal-services contract for a $1,500 bonus and a $10,000 salary
The Steers name was changed to the Dallas Rangers after a short time.
Murchison doesn’t have the votes against the powerful Redskins franchise that have the South locked up.
The early Dallas Cowboys brain trust — Tom Landry, Bedford Wynne, Tex Schramm and Clint Murchison. Photo by Brad Bradley. Courtesy Dallas Morning News
Clint and Bedford Wynne find out “Hail to the Redskins” is not owned by Washington, and in a nutshell purchase it and trades it to the Skins for their vote.
The founding investors were Clint Murchison, Jr. (45%), John D. Murchison (45%), Toddie Lee and Bedford Wynne (Director and Secretary) (5%) and William R. Hawn (5%).
Clint Murchison Jr. becomes the new team’s majority owner. His first order of business was to hire Tex Schramm as General Manager and then Gil Brandt as Player Personnel Director
December 22, 1959 Clint Murchison hires Tom Landry as Head Coach

1960

Tex Schramm and Tom Landry, 1960. Courtesy TSHA Handbook. Image available on the Internet and included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

January 28, 1960. Dallas Rangers awarded NFL Franchise for the astronomical sum of $600,000
- March 13 1960. Dallas Rangers expansion draft (regular draft was in November) Each of the 12 NFL teams had to submit a list of 9 players. Dallas could only choose 3 of the 9 players. They chose:
  – Baltimore Colts: RB L.G. Dupre, P/WR Dave Sherer, DE Ray Krouse
  – Chicago Bears: DT Don Healy, RB Jack Johnson, RB Pete Johnson
  – Cleveland Browns: WR Frank Clarke, RB Leroy Bolden, RB Ed Modzelewski
  – Detroit Lions: WR Jim Doran, C Charlie Ane, LB Gene Cronin
  – Green Bay Packers: RB Don McIlenny, DE Nate Borden, S Bill Butler
  – Los Angeles Rams: CB Tom Franckhauser, T Bob Fry, G Duane Putnam
  – New York Giants: QB Don Heinrich, G Buzz Guy, G Al Barry
  – Philadelphia Eagles: TE Dick Bielski, T Jerry DeLucca, LB Bill Striegel
  – Pittsburgh Steelers: WR Ray Mathews, DT/T Ray Fisher, RB Bobby Luna
  – San Francisco 49ers: LB Jerry Tubbs, WR Fred Dugan, DE John Gonzaga
  – St Louis Cardinals: DT Ed Husmann, LB Jack Patera, T Bobby Cross
  – Washington Redskins: LB Tom Braatz, C Joe Nicely, RB Doyle Nix
  – At this time the NFL also assigned the rights to 1960 NFL draft picks Don Meredith (who had been drafted by the Chicago Bears) and Don Perkins (drafted by the Baltimore Colts) to the Cowboys for a couple of future draft picks. Dallas had to give their third-round and ninth-round choices in the 1962 NFL draft to the Bears and Colts respectively.
March 19, 1960 – Rangers officially changed their name to the Cowboys. They had planned on using Dallas Rangers, but the baseball team in the area decided not to disband and since they wanted a clear and separate identity.
After not being able to participate in the 1960 NFL draft during their inaugural year of existence, the Dallas Cowboys traded their first round (who became future 4x Pro Bowler Norm Snead) and sixth round (#72-Joe Krakoski) draft choices in the 1961 NFL Draft to the Washington Redskins in exchange for Eddie LeBaron, convincing him to come out of retirement to become the franchise’s first starting quarterback. He started 10 of 12 games in 1960, with rookie Don Meredith and Don Heinrich starting the other two. He also scored the Cowboys’ first-ever touchdown in their first exhibition game against the San Francisco 49ers, on August 6 in Seattle. He set a record for the shortest touchdown pass in league history, with his throw to receiver Dick Bielski from the 2-inch line against the Redskins on October 9, 1960.

“When I took the job in 1960, I wasn’t worried in the least, mainly because I didn’t plan to stay in football. I had earned a business degree at Texas and had just added a degree in industrial engineering at Houston. I felt it was just a matter of time before I found a good job.”

—Tom Landry, Sporting News, 8/15/81

April 1960: Cowboys set up headquarters at 4425 N. Central Expressway on the second floor from the first-floor tenant Dallas Automobile Club. The Cowboys’ box office is on the first floor, season-ticket prices were $27.60 for six games.

Tex Schramm, Bedford Wynne, Clint Murchison and Tom Landry in front of the first team headquarters at 4425 N Central Expressway. This would be in 1960, Bedford was a partial owner. He is Angus Wynne Jr’s brother. Toddie Lee Wynne was also part owner. Courtesy Pinterest

Second-floor workers consisted of general manager Tex Schramm, Brandt, coach Tom Landry, three assistant coaches, a public relations director, a couple of secretaries and a receptionist.

July 9, 1960: Rookie training camp in Oregon starts

Cowboys held the first part of regular training camp at Pacific University in Forest Grove, Ore. The second half of camp was at St. John’s Military Academy in Delafield, Wisconsin, a site handpicked by Milwaukee native Brandt which turned into a disaster as it hadn’t been updated in decades and the rooms were built for youngsters, not very large men

1960-62 seasons: Cowboys primarily practice at Burnett Field, home of minor league baseball’s Dallas-Fort Worth Rangers; The offense met in the first-base clubhouse, the defense in the third-base clubhouse. The training room consisted of a couple of tables and ice tubs crammed into the stadium’s women’s restroom.

Some practices are held at DISD-owned Cobb Stadium when Burnett floods, which technically makes it the Cowboys second practice field

1960 Season. Ticket sales are slow. “The league has come a long, long way from the days when we used to pay players $5,000 a year and didn’t pay till Tuesday to make sure the checks cleared.” Gil Brandt

Sept 10 1960. Cowboys play first game in their history at Cotton Bowl.

Tom Franckhauser becomes the first Cowboy to ever touch the ball, taking the opening kickoff, which he also did in their preseason.

Tom Frankhauser, the first Dallas Cowboy to touch the ball. Ran back the opening kickoff in both preseason and regular games, 1960. Courtesy Tom Frankhauser, RIP my friend

1960-1971: Cowboys use Cotton Bowl for NFL games

Cowboys end 1960 with no wins and a single tie, 0-11-1

1961

Training camp moved to St. Olaf College in Northfield, Minnesota
Cowboys add a box office at 1509 Elm Street, tickets can also be purchased at Reynolds-Penland and Jas. K. Wilson stores.

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1961	1	Bob Lilly HOF	13	DT	TCU
1961	2	E.J. Holub	16	LB	Texas Tech
1961	3	Stew Barber	30	T	Penn St.
1961	4	Sonny Davis	44	LB	Baylor
1961	7	Art Gilmore	86	B	Oregon St.
1961	8	Don Talbert	100	T	Texas
1961	9	Glynn Gregory	114	E	SMU
1961	11	Norris Stevenson	142	B	Missouri
1961	12	Lowndes Shingler	156	QB	Clemson
1961	13	Don Goodman	170	B	Florida
1961	14	Billy Shaw HOF	184	G	Georgia Tech
1961	15	Julius Varnado	198	T	San Francisco St.
1961	16	Jerry Steffen	212	B	Colorado
1961	17	Everett Cloud	226	B	Maryland
1961	18	Randy Williams	240	B	Indiana
1961	19	Lynn Hoyem	254	G	Long Beach St.
1961	20	Jerry Morgan	268	B	Iowa St.

Early shot of 6116 N Central, aka Expressway Tower, aka Cowboy Tower. Arrow pointing to the approximate position of the Dallas Cowboy’s third practice facility. Courtesy Squire Haskins Special Collections, UTA Libraries

1962

Cowboys owner Clint Murchison Jr. buys property at Yale Boulevard and North Central Expressway from underneath the AFL’s Dallas Texans which included a practice field and field house.
The Texans are forced to move to a new field a few blocks away for the 1962 season while the Cowboys move to their 3rd practice field. Today this would be directly below where Murchison built the Cowboys Towers at 6116 N Central, approximately where the former Magnolia Hotel and current Beeman Hotel sits at 6070 N Central and 6060 N Central are today.
Training camp moved to Northern Michigan University in Marquette, Michigan
Cowboys are approached by a faction of IBM that wants to get into the NFL accounting areas via their computer systems. Instead Schramm flips it on them and asks them to see what they can do about developing a scouting system. A young Salam Qureishi joins forces with Gil Brandt to create pro sports first version of ‘Moneyball’. They didnt call them ‘analytics’ back then, instead the used the moniker, ‘predictables’

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1962	2	Sonny Gibbs	18	QB	TCU
1962	3	Bobby Plummer	39	T	TCU
1962	6	Donnie Davis	74	WR	Southern
1962	6	George Andrie	82	DE	Marquette
1962	8	Ken Tureaud	102	B	Michigan
1962	10	John Longmeyer	130	G	Southern Illinois
1962	11	Larry Hudas	144	E	Michigan St.
1962	13	Bob Moses	172	E	Texas
1962	14	Harold Hays	186	LB	Southern Miss
1962	15	Guy Reese	200	DT	SMU
1962	16	Bob Johnston	214	T	Rice
1962	17	Ray Jacobs	228	DT	Howard Payne
1962	18	Dave Cloutier	242	DB	Maine
1962	19	Paul Holmes	256	T	Georgia
1962	20	Amos Bullocks	270	HB	Southern Illinois

Video courtesy WFAA and SMU Jones collection

1963

1963-1989: Training camp moved to California Lutheran in Oxnard

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1963	1	Lee Roy Jordan	6	LB	Alabama
1963	3	Jim Price	34	LB	Auburn
1963	4	Whaley Hall	48	T	Mississippi
1963	7	Marv Clothier	90	G	Kansas
1963	10	Rod Scheyer	132	T	Washington
1963	11	Ray Schoenke	146	G	SMU
1963	12	Bill Perkins	160	HB	Iowa
1963	13	Paul Wicker	174	T	Fresno St.
1963	14	Lou Cioci	188	LB	Boston Col.
1963	15	Jerry Overton	202	DB	Utah
1963	16	Dennis Golden	216	T	Holy Cross
1963	17	Ernie Parks	230	G	McMurry
1963	18	Bill Frank	244	T	Colorado
1963	19	Jim Stiger	258	HB	Washington
1963	20	Tommy Lucas	272	E	Texas

1964

Dallas Cowboy coaching staff, 1964. Dick Nolan, Red Hickey, Tom Landry, Jim Myers, Ermel Allen. Image available on the Internet and included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.
February 5, 1964: Clint Murchison signs Tom Landry to the longest contract in sports history, a 10 year agreemen
June 22, 1964: Cowboys move to their second, albeit temporary headquarters, 5738 N. Central Expressway (between Mockingbird and Yale, approximately where Mockingbird Station is now), with plans to move again in 1966 to a nearby office tower being constructed by Murchison. The temporary office is about 3 blocks south of the practice field.

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1964	1	Scott Appleton	4	DT	Texas
1964	2	Mel Renfro HOF	17	DB	Oregon
1964	4	Perry Lee Dunn	45	RB	Mississippi
1964	6	Billy Lothridge	73	DB	Georgia Tech
1964	6	Jim Curry	82	E	Cincinnati
1964	6	Jim Evans	83	WR	Texas-El Paso
1964	7	Bob Hayes HOF	88	SE	Florida A&M
1964	8	Al Geverink	101	HB	UCLA
1964	9	Jake Kupp	116	G	Washington
1964	10	Roger Staubach HOF	129	QB	Navy
1964	11	Bob Crenshaw	144	G	Baylor
1964	12	Johnny Norman	157	E
1964	13	Jerry Rhome	172	QB	Tulsa
1964	14	Jim Worden	185	LB	Wittenberg
1964	15	Bill Van Burkleo	200	B	Tulsa
1964	16	Paul Cercel	213	C	Pittsburgh
1964	17	Bud Abell	228	LB	Missouri
1964	18	Theophile Viltz	241	DB	USC
1964	19	H.D. Murphy	256	B	Oregon
1964	20	John Hughes	269	LB	SMU

1965

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1965	1	Craig Morton	5	QB	California
1965	2	Malcolm Walker	19	C	Rice
1965	4	Jimmy Sidle	47	RB	Auburn
1965	4	Bob Svihus	53	T	USC
1965	5	Roger Pettee	61	LB	Florida
1965	6	Sonny Utz	75	FB	Virginia Tech
1965	7	Brig Owens	89	DB	Cincinnati
1965	8	Russell Wayt	103	LB	Rice
1965	9	Jim Zanios	117	FB	Texas Tech
1965	10	Gaylon McCollough	131	C	Alabama
1965	11	Jethro Pugh	145	DT	Elizabeth City St.
1965	12	Ernie Kellermann	159	DB	Miami (OH)
1965	13	Jack Schraub	173	E	California
1965	14	Garry Porterfield	187	DE	Tulsa
1965	15	Gene Foster	201	RB	Arizona St.
1965	16	Doug McDougal	215	E	Oregon St.
1965	17	Mitch Johnson	229	T	UCLA
1965	18	Marty Amsler	243	DE	Evansville
1965	19	Marv Rettenmund	257	HB	Ball St.
1965	20	Don Barlow	271	T	Kansas St.

1966

Lamar Hunt had moved the Dallas Texans to Kansas City in 1963 as the NFL was simply too strong, the current owners were too wealthy. And then the Giants approached Bills kicker Pete Gogolak and they signed him and all hell broke loose. The AFL started to fight back, signing current NFL players like Roman Gabriel to futures contracts. The bidding wars were causing contracts to run too high. Secret meetings authorized by Pete Rozelle were held between old friends, Lamar Hunt and Tex Schramm. On June 8 1966, the AFL-NFL merger was announced. Common schedules came into play in 1970
Cowboys began an NFL-record streak of 20 consecutive winning seasons. That streak included 18 years in the playoffs, 13 divisional championships, five trips to the Super Bowl and victories in Super Bowls VI and XII.
Cowboys won Division title but lost in the NFL championship to Green Bay
Dec. 19, 1966: Thirteen days before hosting the Packers in the NFL Championship Game, Cowboys move into their third headquarters in the new offices at 6116 N. Central Expressway, taking over the 11th floor of a 15-story, $7 million Expressway Tower built primarily for Murchison’s marine construction company, Tecon. The office overlooks the team’s practice field.
Clint Murchison Jr, died in 1986, founded the Dallas Cowboys, holds a football that was used in the 1966 Super Bowl game. This was shot in his Dallas office. Copy and photo courtesy David Woo and the Dallas Morning News

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1966	1	John Niland	5	G	Iowa
1966	2	Willie Townes	22	DE	Tulsa
1966	5	Walt Garrison	79	RB	Oklahoma St.
1966	6	Bob Dunlevy	86	E	West Virginia
1966	7	Arthur Robinson	100	E	Florida A&M
1966	8	Don Kunit	116	HB	Penn St.
1966	9	Darrell Elam	130	E	West Virginia Tech
1966	10	Mason Mitchell	146	HB	Washington
1966	11	Austin Denney	160	TE	Tennessee
1966	12	Les Shy	173	RB	Long Beach St.
1966	12	Craig Baynham	176	HB	Georgia Tech
1966	13	Ron Lamb	190	RB	South Carolina
1966	14	Lewis Turner	206	HB	Norfolk St.
1966	15	Mark Gartung	220	T	Oregon St.
1966	16	Tom Piggee	236	HB	San Francisco St.
1966	17	George Allen	250	T	West Texas A&M
1966	18	Steve Orr	266	T	Washington
1966	19	Byron Johnson	280	T	Central Washington
1966	20	Lou Hudson	296	FL	Minnesota

1967

June 1967: Cowboys lease 3.5 acres near Forest Lane and Abrams Road and begin construction of a training facility and practice fields, which they move to in October and this becomes their fourth practice facility
Cowboys won Division title but lost in the NFL championship to Green Bay
George Allen was coaching the Los Angeles Rams in 1967 when the first Allen-Dallas dustup occurred. Cowboy exec Tex Schramm said a suspicious vehicle had been parked near the team’s practice field. Alert and inquisitive, he alleged a license plate check traced the car rental to Johnny Sanders, head scout of the Rams.

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1967	3	Phil Clark	76	DB	Northwestern
1967	4	Curtis Marker	103	G	Northern Michigan
1967	6	Sims Stokes	157	WR	Northern Arizona
1967	7	Rayfield Wright HOF	182	T	Fort Valley St.
1967	8	Steve Laub	208	QB	Illinois Wesleyan
1967	9	Byron Morgan	234	DB	Findlay
1967	10	Eugene Bowen	260	HB	Tennessee St.
1967	11	Pat Riley	285	FL	Kentucky
1967	12	Harold Deters	312	K	North Carolina St.
1967	13	Al Kerkian	338	DE	Akron
1967	14	Tommy Boyd	364	G	Tarleton St.
1967	15	Leavie Davis	390	DB	Edward Waters
1967	16	Paul Brothers	416	QB	Oregon St.
1967	17	George Adams	442	LB	Morehead St.

1968

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1968	1	Dennis Homan	20	WR	Alabama
1968	2	Dave McDaniels	45	WR	Miss. Valley St.
1968	3	Ed Harmon	71	LB	Louisville
1968	4	John Douglas	97	LB	Missouri
1968	5	Blaine Nye	130	G	Stanford
1968	6	D.D. Lewis	159	LB	Mississippi St.
1968	7	Bob Taucher	185	T	Nebraska
1968	8	Frank Brown	211	DT	Albany St.
1968	9	Ken Kmiec	241	DB	Illinois
1968	10	Ben Olison	266	FL	Kansas
1968	11	Ron Shotts	292	RB	Oklahoma
1968	12	Wilson Whitty	321	LB	Boston Univ.
1968	13	Carter Lord	347	FL	Harvard
1968	14	Ron Williams	373	DB	West Virginia
1968	15	Tony Lunceford	402	K	Auburn
1968	16	Larry Cole	428	DE	Hawaii
1968	17	George Nordgren	454	RB	Houston

1969

Cowboys win the Capital Division. They lose to the Cleveland Browns in the Eastern Championship 38-14

Bill Bragg’s Press Passes for 1969 when he ran cameras for CBS. Bill donated those passes to Memories Incorporated. Thanks Bill, RIP

You want to know about ‘luck of the draw’? As the AFL-NFL merger approached in 1969-70 The AFC teams quickly decided on a divisional alignment but the NFC had a lot of infighting. They had gone to 4 team divisions in 1967 but nobody wanted to be in the same divisions as the Cowboys or Vikings. Everyone wanted the Saints as they were the worst team in football The final five proposals were as follows: PLAN 1: East: NYG, PHI, WAS, ATL, MIN; Central: CHI, GB, DET, NO; West: LA, SF, DAL, STL. PLAN 2: East: NYG, PHI, WAS, MIN; Central: ATL, DAL, NO, STL; West: LA, SF, CHI, GB, DET. PLAN 3: East: NYG, PHI, WAS, DAL, STL: Central: CHI, GB, DET, MIN; West: LA, SF, ATL, NO. PLAN 4: East: NYG, PHI, WAS, STL, MIN; Central: CHI, GB, DET, ATL; West: LA, SF, DAL, NO. PLAN 5: East: NYG, PHI, WAS, DET, MIN; Central: CHI, GB, DAL, STL; West: LA, SF, ATL, NO. These five combinations were written up on slips of paper, sealed into envelopes and put into a fish bowl (other sources say a flower vase), and the official NFC alignment ‘Plan 3’ was pulled out by Rozelle’s secretary, Thelma Elkjer.

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1969	1	Calvin Hill	24	RB	Yale
1969	2	Richmond Flowers	49	DB	Tennessee
1969	3	Thomas Stincic	68	LB	Michigan
1969	3	Halvor Hagen	74	G	Weber St.
1969	5	Chuck Kyle	125	LB	Purdue
1969	6	Rick Shaw	152	FL	Arizona St.
1969	7	Larry Bales	180	FL	Emory & Henry
1969	8	Elmer Benhardt	205	LB	Missouri
1969	9	Claxton Welch	230	RB	Oregon
1969	10	Stuart Gottlieb	258	T	Weber St.
1969	11	Sweeny Williams	283	DE	Prairie View
1969	12	Bob Belden	308	QB	Notre Dame
1969	13	Rene Matison	336	FL	New Mexico
1969	14	Gerald Lutri	361	T	Northern Michigan
1969	15	Bill Justus	386	DB	Tennessee
1969	16	Floyd Kerr	414	DB	Colorado St.
1969	17	Bill Bailey	439	DT	Lewis & Clark

Clint Murchison Jr., Tex Schramm, and Mayor R. Dan Matkin survey progress at Texas Stadium in Irving. Image available on the Internet and included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107. Courtesy TSHA Online

1970

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1970	1	Duane Thomas	23	RB	West Texas A&M
1970	2	Bob Asher	27	T	Vanderbilt
1970	2	Margene Adkins	49	WR	Henderson JC
1970	3	Charlie Waters	66	DB	Clemson
1970	3	Steve Kiner	73	LB	Tennessee
1970	3	Denton Fox	75	DB	Texas Tech
1970	4	John Fitzgerald	101	C	Boston Col.
1970	6	Pat Toomay	153	DE	Vanderbilt
1970	7	Don Abbey	179	LB	Penn St.
1970	8	Jerry Dossey	205	G	Arkansas
1970	9	Zenon Andrusyshyn	231	P	UCLA
1970	10	Pete Athas	257	DB	Tennessee
1970	11	Ivan Southerland	283	T	Clemson
1970	12	Joe Williams	309	RB	Wyoming
1970	13	Mark Washington	335	DB	Morgan St.
1970	14	Julian Martin	361	WR	North Carolina Central
1970	15	Ken DeLong	387	TE	Tennessee
1970	16	Seabern Hill	411	DB	Arizona St.
1970	17	Glenn Patterson	438	C	Nebraska

1971

January 17, 1971 – Cowboys go to Superbowl, losing to Baltimore on a last second TB in Superbowl V.
October 24, 1971: After playing their first two home games in 1971 at the Cotton Bowl, the Cowboys opened Texas Stadium in Irving

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1971	1	Tody Smith	25	DE	USC
1971	2	Ike Thomas	51	DB	Bishop
1971	3	Sam Scarber	69	RB	New Mexico
1971	3	Bill Gregory	77	DE	Wisconsin
1971	4	Joe Carter	80	TE	Grambling St.
1971	4	Adam Mitchell	103	T	Mississippi
1971	5	Ron Kadziel	129	LB	Stanford
1971	6	Steve Maier	155	WR	Northern Arizona
1971	7	Bill Griffin	181	T	Catawba
1971	8	Ron Jessie	206	WR	Kansas
1971	9	Honor Jackson	233	DB	Pacific
1971	10	Rodney Wallace	259	T	New Mexico
1971	11	Ernest Bonwell	285	DT	Lane
1971	12	Steve Goepel	311	QB	Colgate
1971	13	James Ford	337	RB	Texas Southern
1971	14	Tyrone Covey	363	DB	Utah St.
1971	15	Bob Young	389	TE	Delaware
1971	16	John Brennan	415	T	Boston Col.
1971	17	John Bomer	440	C	Memphis

1972

January 16 1972 Cowboys win their first Superbowl 24-3 over the Miami Dolphins in Superbowl VI
Landry finally sheds the ‘bridesmaid’ title. Bullet Bob Hayes, Big Cat Rayfield Wright raise Landry on their shoulders

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1972	1	Bill Thomas	26	RB	Boston Col.
1972	2	Robert Newhouse	35	RB	Houston
1972	2	John Babinecz	39	LB	Villanova
1972	2	Charlie McKee	52	WR	Arizona
1972	3	Mike Keller	64	LB	Michigan
1972	3	Marv Bateman	78	P	Utah
1972	4	Tim Kearney	83	LB	Northern Michigan
1972	4	Robert West	90	WR	San Diego St.
1972	4	Charlie Zapiec	93	LB	Penn St.
1972	6	Charles Bolden	156	DB	Iowa
1972	8	Ralph Coleman	208	LB	North Carolina A&T
1972	9	Roy Bell	234	RB	Oklahoma
1972	10	Richard Amman	260	DE	Florida St.
1972	11	Lonnie Leonard	286	DE	North Carolina A&T
1972	12	Jimmy Harris	312	WR	Ohio St.
1972	13	Jean Fugett	338	TE	Amherst
1972	14	Alan Thompson	363	RB	Wisconsin
1972	15	Carlos Alvarez	390	WR	Florida
1972	16	Gordon Longmire	416	QB	Utah
1972	17	Alfonso Cain	442	DT	Bethune-Cookman

1973

Redskins spies are noticed by hotel employees at the hotel overlooking the Cowboy Forest lane practice field.
In our interview with Charlie Waters, he told me that the Cowboys moved their practice during Redskin week to the Cotton Bowl making it the fifth practice facility.

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1973	1	Billy Joe DuPree	20	TE	Michigan St.
1973	2	Golden Richards	46	WR	BYU
1973	3	Harvey Martin	53	DE	Texas A&M-Commerce
1973	4	Drane Scrievener	98	DB	Tulsa
1973	5	Bruce Walton	126	T	UCLA
1973	6	Bob Leyen	151	G	Yale
1973	7	Rodrigo Barnes	176	LB	Rice
1973	8	Dan Werner	204	QB	Michigan St.
1973	9	Mike White	229	DB	Minnesota
1973	10	Carl Johnson	254	LB	Tennessee
1973	11	Gerald Caswell	282	G	Colorado St.
1973	12	Jim Arneson	307	G	Arizona
1973	13	John Smith	332	WR	UCLA
1973	14	Bob Thornton	360	G	North Carolina
1973	15	Walt Baisy	385	LB	Grambling St.
1973	16	John Conley	410	TE	Hawaii
1973	17	Les Strayhorn	438	RB	East Carolina

1974

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1974	1	Too Tall Jones	1	DE	Tennessee St.
1974	1	Charley Young	22	RB	North Carolina St.
1974	3	Danny White	53	QB	Arizona St.
1974	3	Cal Peterson	72	LB	UCLA
1974	4	Ken Hutcherson	97	LB	West Alabama
1974	4	Andy Andrade	101	RB	Northern Michigan
1974	5	John Kelsey	126	T	Missouri
1974	6	Jimmy Bright	151	DB	UCLA
1974	7	Raymond Nester	176	LB	Michigan St.
1974	8	Mike Holt	205	DB	Michigan St.
1974	9	Bill Dulin	230	T	Johnson C. Smith
1974	10	Dennis Morgan	255	RB	West. Illinois
1974	11	Harvey McGee	280	WR	Southern Miss
1974	12	Keith Bobo	309	QB	SMU
1974	13	Fred Lima	334	K	Colorado
1974	14	Doug Richards	359	DB	BYU
1974	15	Bruce Craft	384	T	Geneva
1974	16	Gene Killian	413	G	Tennessee
1974	17	Lawrie Skolrood	438	T	North Dakota

1975

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1975	1	Randy White HOF	2	DT	Maryland
1975	1	Thomas Henderson	18	LB	Langston
1975	2	Burton Lawless	44	G	Florida
1975	3	Bob Breunig	70	LB	Arizona St.
1975	4	Pat Donovan	90	T	Stanford
1975	4	Randy Hughes	96	DB	Oklahoma
1975	5	Kyle Davis	113	C	Oklahoma
1975	6	Rolly Woolsey	148	DB	Boise St.
1975	7	Mike Hegman	173	LB	Tennessee St.
1975	8	Mitch Hoopes	200	P	Arizona
1975	9	Ed Jones	226	DB	Rutgers
1975	10	Dennis Booker	252	RB	Millersville
1975	11	Greg Krpalek	278	C	Oregon St.
1975	12	Chuck Bland	304	DB	Cincinnati
1975	13	Herbert Scott	330	G	Virginia Union
1975	14	Scott Laidlaw	356	RB	Stanford
1975	15	Willie Hamilton	382	RB	Arizona
1975	16	Pete Clark	407	TE	Colorado St.
1975	17	Jim Testerman	434	TE	Dayton

1976

January 18 1976 In Superbowl X Cowboys lose to Steelers 21-17 on one of the worst no-calls in Superbowl history

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1976	1	Aaron Kyle	27	DB	Wyoming
1976	2	Jim Jensen	40	RB	Iowa
1976	2	Jim Eidson	55	G	Mississippi St.
1976	3	Duke Fergerson	73	WR	San Diego St.
1976	3	John Smith	75	RB	Boise St.
1976	3	Butch Johnson	87	WR	California-Riverside
1976	4	Tom Rafferty	119	C	Penn St.
1976	5	Wally Pesuit	151	G	Kentucky
1976	6	Greg McGuire	181	T	Indiana
1976	7	Greg Schaum	186	DE	Michigan St.
1976	7	Dave Williams	208	RB	Colorado
1976	8	Henry Laws	236	DB	South Carolina
1976	9	Beasley Reece	264	DB	North Texas
1976	10	Leroy Cook	290	DE	Alabama
1976	11	Cornelius Greene	317	QB	Ohio St.
1976	12	Charles McShane	346	LB	California Lutheran
1976	13	Mark Driscoll	374	QB	Colorado St.
1976	14	Larry Mushinskie	402	TE	Nebraska
1976	15	Dale Curry	430	LB	UCLA
1976	16	Rick Costanzo	458	T	Nebraska
1976	17	Stan Woodfill	486	K	Oregon

1977

Forrest Gregg, Guard/Tackle becomes the first Dallas Cowboy in the NFL Hall of Fame

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1977	1	Tony Dorsett HOF	2	RB	Pittsburgh
1977	2	Glenn Carano	54	QB	UNLV
1977	3	Tony Hill	62	WR	Stanford
1977	3	Val Belcher	81	G	Houston
1977	4	Guy Brown	108	LB	Houston
1977	5	Andy Frederick	137	T	New Mexico
1977	6	Jim Cooper	164	T	Temple
1977	7	Dave Stalls	191	DE	Northern Colorado
1977	8	Al Cleveland	208	DE	Pacific
1977	8	Fred Williams	221	RB	Arizona St.
1977	9	Mark Cantrell	248	C	North Carolina
1977	10	Steve DeBerg	275	QB	San Jose St.
1977	11	Don Wardlow	305	TE	Washington
1977	12	Greg Peters	332	G	California

1978

Thomas Henderson destroys Denver QB in Super Bowl. This is shortly before the new NFL rules which said you were not allowed to touch QBs
January 15 1978. Dallas destroy the Broncos 27-10 in Superbowl XII
Lance Alworth, Flanker, NFL Hall of Fame Class of 1978

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1978	1	Larry Bethea	28	DT	Michigan St.
1978	2	Todd Christensen	56	TE	BYU
1978	3	Dave Hudgens	84	DT	Oklahoma
1978	4	Alois Blackwell	110	RB	Houston
1978	5	Rich Rosen	138	G	Syracuse
1978	6	Harold Randolph	166	LB	East Carolina
1978	7	Tom Randall	194	G	Iowa St.
1978	8	Homer Butler	222	WR	UCLA
1978	9	Russ Williams	250	DB	Tennessee
1978	10	Barry Tomasetti	278	G	Iowa
1978	11	Dennis Thurman	306	DB	USC
1978	12	Lee Washburn	334	G	Montana St.

1979

January 21 1979 Stealers beat the Cowboys 35-31 in Superbowl XIII

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1979	1	Robert Shaw	27	C	Tennessee
1979	2	Aaron Mitchell	55	DB	UNLV
1979	3	Doug Cosbie	76	TE	Santa Clara
1979	4	Ralph DeLoach	109	DE	California
1979	5	Bob Hukill	121	G	North Carolina
1979	5	Curtis Anderson	128	DE	Central State (OH)
1979	5	Ron Springs	136	RB	Ohio St.
1979	6	Tim Lavender	155	DB	USC
1979	6	Mike Salzano	160	G	North Carolina
1979	6	Chris DeFrance	164	WR	Arizona St.
1979	7	Greg Fitzpatrick	191	LB	Youngstown St.
1979	8	Bruce Thornton	219	DE	Illinois
1979	9	Garry Cobb	247	LB	USC
1979	10	Mike Calhoun	274	DT	Notre Dame
1979	12	Quentin Lowry	329	LB	Youngstown St.

1980

Bob Lilly, ‘Mr Cowboy’, the huge DT goes into the NFL Hall of Fame
Herb Adderley, CB goes into the NFL Hall of Fame

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1980	3	Bill Roe	78	LB	Colorado
1980	3	James Jones	80	RB	Mississippi St.
1980	4	Kurt Petersen	105	G	Missouri
1980	5	Gary Hogeboom	133	QB	Central Michigan
1980	6	Timmy Newsome	162	RB	Winston-Salem St.
1980	7	Lester Brown	189	RB	Clemson
1980	8	Larry Savage	216	LB	Michigan St.
1980	9	Jackie Flowers	246	WR	Florida St.
1980	10	Matthew Teague	273	DE	Prairie View
1980	11	Gary Padjen	300	LB	Arizona St.
1980	12	Norm Wells	330	DT	Northwestern

1981

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1981	1	Howard Richards	26	G	Missouri
1981	2	Doug Donley	53	WR	Ohio St.
1981	3	Glen Titensor	81	G	BYU
1981	4	Scott Pelluer	91	LB	Washington St.
1981	4	Derrie Nelson	108	LB	Nebraska
1981	5	Danny Spradlin	137	LB	Tennessee
1981	6	Vince Skillings	163	DB	Ohio St.
1981	7	Ron Fellows	173	DB	Missouri
1981	7	Ken Miller	191	DB	East. Michigan
1981	8	Paul Piurowski	218	LB	Florida St.
1981	9	Mike Wilson	246	WR	Washington St.
1981	10	Pat Graham	273	DT	California
1981	11	Tim Morrison	302	G	Georgia
1981	12	Nate Lundy	329	WR	Indiana

1982

The drafting of Rod Hill in Round One starts a string of bad draft, with a few exceptions that continue until Jerry Jones purchases the team.
The 1982 NFL strike, which lasted for three months and eight weeks, forced the 1982 season to be shortened to 9 games per team
Dallas goes 6-3 and ends the season just missing the Super Bowl.
Dallas wins first round over Bucs, round two over Packs and loses NFC championship to Redskins who beat the Dolphins in the Superbowl

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1982	1	Rod Hill	25	DB	Kentucky St.
1982	2	Jeff Rohrer	53	LB	Yale
1982	3	Jim Eliopulos	81	LB	Wyoming
1982	4	Brian Carpenter	101	DB	Michigan
1982	4	Monty Hunter	109	DB	Salem
1982	5	Phil Pozderac	137	T	Notre Dame
1982	6	Ken Hammond	143	G	Vanderbilt
1982	6	Charles Daum	165	DT	Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo
1982	7	Bill Purifoy	193	DE	Tulsa
1982	8	George Peoples	216	RB	Auburn
1982	8	Dwight Sullivan	221	RB	North Carolina St.
1982	9	Joe Gary	249	DT	UCLA
1982	10	Todd Eckerson	277	T	North Carolina St.
1982	11	George Thompson	295	WR	Albany St.
1982	11	Mike Whiting	304	RB	Florida St.
1982	12	Rich Burtness	332	G	Montana

1983

November 29, 1983: Cowboys break ground on a 30-acre office and training facility in Valley Ranch.

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1983	1	Jim Jeffcoat	23	DE	Arizona St.
1983	2	Mike Walter	50	LB	Oregon
1983	3	Bryan Caldwell	77	DE	Arizona St.
1983	4	Chris Faulkner	108	TE	Florida
1983	5	Chuck McSwain	135	RB	Clemson
1983	6	Reggie Collier	162	QB	Southern Miss
1983	7	Chris Schultz	189	T	Arizona
1983	8	Lawrence Ricks	220	RB	Michigan
1983	9	Al Gross	246	DB	Arizona
1983	10	Eric Moran	273	T	Washington
1983	11	Dan Taylor	300	T	Idaho St.
1983	12	Lorenzo Bouier	331	RB	Maine

1984

Bum Bright purchases the Cowboys for $84 million

Tex Schramm points out items of interest at the new training facility at Valley Ranch. Courtesy of John F. Rhodes Photography. Image available on the Internet and included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107. TSHA Handbook

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1984	1	Billy Cannon	25	LB	Texas A&M
1984	2	Victor Scott	40	DB	Colorado
1984	3	Fred Cornwell	81	TE	USC
1984	4	Steve DeOssie	110	LB	Boston Col.
1984	5	Steve Pelluer	113	QB	Washington
1984	5	Norm Granger	137	RB	Iowa
1984	6	Eugene Lockhart	152	LB	Houston
1984	6	Joe Levelis	166	G	Iowa
1984	7	Ed Martin	193	LB	Indiana St.
1984	8	Mike Revell	222	RB	Bethune-Cookman
1984	9	John Hunt	232	T	Florida
1984	9	Neil Maune	249	G	Notre Dame
1984	10	Brian Salonen	278	LB	Montana
1984	11	Dowe Aughtman	304	DT	Auburn
1984	12	Carl Lewis	334	WR	Houston

1985

Captain America in his second job, moonlighting as a waiter
August 27, 1985: Players and coaches move to the new Valley Ranch facility.
Front office personnel move in several weeks later, marking the first time since 1967 that the team’s practice facility and office complex are in the same area.
Valley Ranch becomes the sixth Cowboy practice facility.
Roger Staubach inducted into NFL Hall of Fame at QB

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1985	1	Kevin Brooks	17	DT	Michigan
1985	2	Jesse Penn	44	LB	Virginia Tech
1985	3	Crawford Ker	76	G	Florida
1985	4	Robert Lavette	103	RB	Georgia Tech
1985	5	Herschel Walker	114	RB	Georgia
1985	5	Matt Darwin	119	C	Texas A&M
1985	6	Kurt Ploeger	144	DE	Gustavus Adolphus
1985	6	Matt Moran	157	G	Stanford
1985	7	Karl Powe	178	WR	Alabama St.
1985	7	Jim Herrmann	184	DE	BYU
1985	8	Leon Gonzalez	216	WR	Bethune-Cookman
1985	9	Scott Strasburger	243	LB	Nebraska
1985	10	Joe Jones	270	TE	Virginia Tech
1985	11	Neal Dellocono	297	LB	UCLA
1985	12	Karl Jordan	324	LB	Vanderbilt

1986

In a Brad Sham book ‘Stadium Stories’ Tex Schramm says that in the Spring of 1986 Bum Bright, Tex Schramm and Landry agree that Landry will retire at the end of the season. According to Tex, the NFL has moved past him and he will not adapt. Paul Hackett is brought in from San Francisco to take over for Landry and revive the stagnating offense
Landry refuses to let Hackett run the offense and blends the West Coast offense with his old one
He does not retire at the end of the year as he agreed to.

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1986	1	Mike Sherrard	18	WR	UCLA
1986	2	Darryl Clack	33	RB	Arizona St.
1986	3	Mark Walen	74	DT	UCLA
1986	4	Max Zendejas	100	K	Arizona
1986	6	Thornton Chandler	140	TE	Alabama
1986	6	Stan Gelbaugh	150	QB	Maryland
1986	6	Lloyd Yancey	158	G	Temple
1986	7	Johnny Holloway	185	DB	Kansas
1986	8	Topper Clemons	212	RB	Wake Forest
1986	9	John Ionata	242	G	Florida St.
1986	10	Bryan Chester	269	G	Texas
1986	11	Garth Jax	296	LB	Florida St.
1986	12	Chris Duliban	307	LB	Texas
1986	12	Tony Flack	322	DB	Georgia

1987

Brad Sham “Landry then decides, without telling anyone, he is not going to quit.” Either 1987 or 1988 in the Spring, Landry had a press conference. Schramm had Marty Schottenheimer in town, looking at houses. He thought he was going to hire Marty Schottenheimer to replace Tom Landry, who was going to retire. Landry comes and has a press conference, and that’s when Schramm finds out that Landry is not quitting.
Tex will still not fire him as Gil, Tex and Tom were hired together and would leave together.
This is the strike year. Replacements go 2-1. Regulars go 5-7.

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1987	1	Danny Noonan	12	DT	Nebraska
1987	2	Ron Francis	39	DB	Baylor
1987	3	Jeff Zimmerman	68	G	Florida
1987	4	Kelvin Martin	95	WR	Boston Col.
1987	5	Everett Gay	124	WR	Texas
1987	6	Joe Onosai	151	G	Hawaii
1987	7	Kevin Sweeney	180	QB	Fresno St.
1987	8	Kevin Gogan	206	G	Washington
1987	9	Alvin Blount	235	RB	Maryland
1987	10	Dale Jones	262	LB	Tennessee
1987	11	Jeff Ward	291	K	Texas
1987	12	Scott Armstrong	318	LB	Florida

1988

Possibly Landry’s worst year. He can no longer relate to the players, the NFL has long since figured out the Flex defense and his GM and Owner have expected him to retire for the past two years. They go 3-13
Mike Ditka goes into NFL Hall of Fame at TE

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1988	1	Michael Irvin HOF	11	WR	Miami (FL)
1988	2	Ken Norton Jr.	41	LB	UCLA
1988	3	Mark Hutson	67	G	Oklahoma
1988	4	Dave Widell	94	C	Boston Col.
1988	6	Scott Secules	151	QB	Virginia
1988	7	Owen Hooven	178	T	Oregon St.
1988	8	Mark Higgs	205	RB	Kentucky
1988	9	Brian Bedford	232	WR	California
1988	10	Billy Owens	263	DB	Pittsburgh
1988	11	Chad Hennings	290	DT	Air Force
1988	12	Ben Hummel	317	LB	UCLA

1989

Feb 25, 1989 – Bum Bright sells the team. He has had several offers, however he wasn’t going to sell to anyone that was going to keep Landry. Landry must be fired for the deal to be done. But does not take the highest one, instead he goes with the charismatic Jerry Jones for $170 million.
“Our agreement on the purchase of the Dallas Cowboys was finalized with a few notes on a napkin and a handshake,” Jones said in a statement. “With Bum, his word meant everything.” LA Times
Jones is the the majority partner, with five minority owners, including Ed Smith of Houston, who had 27 percent under Bright’s ownership. The other minority owners include Charles Wily, Sam Wily and Evan Wily, who are affiliated with U.S. Cafes, owners of the Bonanza Steakhouse chain, and Russell Glass.
Brad Sham; “So, Bum Bright says to Jerry Jones, ‘I’ll fire him for you.’ And Jerry says ‘No, no, I’m going to fly down and tell him face to face.’ Well, people don’t want to hear that, because that doesn’t make Jerry a villain.”
The firing actually happens prior to Jerry Jones speaking to him. Landry is in the film room with newly hired Quarterback coach Jerry Rhome, who was also a player in the 60’s for the Cowboys. Tex Schramm sticks his head in the door and asks Landry to come into the hall. Newspaper reports and a personal phone call to Jerry from me confirm this. Landry comes back into the room and says, “Sorry I got you into this, they just fired me.” And Landry doesn’t wait around to fight for his job with Jones, but jumps in his plane and flies to Austin.
Announcement of the sale, rumored since Thursday, came at a news conference 8:22 p.m. Saturday at Valley Ranch. The news conference was scheduled to begin at 7 p.m., but was delayed because Jones and club president Tex Schramm flew in Jones’ private jet to Austin to inform Landry personally that he was being replaced as Cowboys coach. Schramm’s voice broke and tears welled in his eyes as he talked of the visit with Landry. “It was a very difficult meeting, difficult and sad,” said Schramm, who will retain his role with the Cowboys. “It’s tough when you break a relationship that you have had for 29 years. But I am glad the ownership problem has been cleared up. It’s good for the ballclub,” Schramm said. (The Oklahoman)
Bright says later that his biggest regret during his Cowboy tenure was not firing Landry himself.
Jones offers Landry a position with the Cowboys that Tom declines.
Jones hires Jimmy Johnson, his Arkansas teammate as Head Coach. He will serve from 1989-1993. He supervises the 1989 Draft

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1989	1	Troy Aikman HOF	1	QB	UCLA
1989	2	Steve Wisniewski	29	G	Penn St.
1989	2	Daryl Johnston	39	RB	Syracuse
1989	3	Mark Stepnoski	57	C	Pittsburgh
1989	3	Rhondy Weston	68	DE	Florida
1989	4	Tony Tolbert	85	DE	Texas-El Paso
1989	5	Keith Jennings	113	TE	Clemson
1989	5	Willis Crockett	119	LB	Georgia Tech
1989	5	Jeff Roth	125	DT	Florida
1989	7	Kevin Peterson	168	LB	Northwestern
1989	8	Charvez Foger	196	RB	Nevada
1989	9	Tim Jackson	224	DB	Nebraska
1989	10	Rod Carter	252	LB	Miami (FL)
1989	11	Randy Shannon	280	LB	Miami (FL)
1989	12	Scott Ankrom	308	WR	TCU

October 12, 1989, a trade occurs centered on sending running back Herschel Walker from the Dallas Cowboys to the Minnesota Vikings. Including Walker and a transaction involving the San Diego Chargers, the trade eventually involved 18 players and draft picks. This gave Dallas the ammunition to win the three Super Bowls of the 1990s

“There is no right way to fire Tom Landry. Yet it was what everybody wanted done, and what everybody agreed had to happen. They just wanted him to step away gracefully, but he didn’t want to.”
“The great irony to me is that is what he did with his players. He intentionally did not have close personal relationships with most of his players while he was playing because he knew there would be a day when he would have to cut them. And all of his players, 85-90%, didn’t like him when they played for him. But they looked back after they played for him, and said “Wow.” He cared about them deeply, but felt, this is the way I have to run this business. Then it happened to him, and he didn’t like it.” Brad Sham courtesy Peter King podcast.

1990

1990-97: Training camp St. Edwards University in Austin
Tom Landry becomes the first Cowboy coach in the NFL Hall of Fame

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1990	1	Emmitt Smith HOF	17	RB	Florida
1990	2	Alexander Wright	26	WR	Auburn
1990	3	Jimmie Jones	64	DT	Miami (FL)
1990	5	Stan Smagala	123	DB	Notre Dame
1990	9	Kenneth Gant	221	DB	Albany State (GA)
1990	11	Dave Harper	277	LB	Humboldt St.

1991

Texas E. Schramm becomes the first Cowboy GM in the NFL Hall of Fame

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1991	1	Russell Maryland	1	DT	Miami (FL)
1991	1	Alvin Harper	12	WR	Tennessee
1991	1	Kelvin Pritchett	20	DT	Mississippi
1991	2	Dixon Edwards	37	LB	Michigan St.
1991	3	Godfrey Myles	62	LB	Florida
1991	3	James Richards	64	G	California
1991	3	Erik Williams	70	T	Central State (OH)
1991	4	Curvin Richards	97	RB	Pittsburgh
1991	4	Bill Musgrave	106	QB	Oregon
1991	4	Tony Hill	108	DE	Tenn-Chattanooga
1991	4	Kevin Harris	110	DE	Texas Southern
1991	5	Darrick Brownlow	132	LB	Illinois
1991	6	Mike Sullivan	153	G	Miami (FL)
1991	7	Leon Lett	173	DT	Emporia St.
1991	9	Damon Mays	235	WR	Missouri
1991	10	Sean Love	264	G	Penn St.
1991	11	Tony Boles	291	RB	Michigan
1991	12	Larry Brown	320	DB	TCU

The Triplets. Dallas Cowboys quarterback Troy Aikman, running back Emmitt Smith, and wide receiver Michael Irvin. Image available on the Internet and included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107. Courtesy TSHA Handbook

1992

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1992	1	Kevin Smith	17	DB	Texas A&M
1992	1	Robert Jones	24	LB	East Carolina
1992	2	Jimmy Smith	36	WR	Jackson St.
1992	2	Darren Woodson	37	DB	Arizona St.
1992	3	Clayton Holmes	58	DB	Carson-Newman
1992	3	James Brown	82	T	Virginia St.
1992	4	Tom Myslinski	109	G	Tennessee
1992	5	Greg Briggs	120	DB	Texas Southern
1992	5	Rod Milstead	121	G	Delaware St.
1992	6	Fallon Wacasey	149	TE	Tulsa
1992	9	Nate Kirtman	248	DB	Pomona
1992	9	Chris Hall	250	DB	East Carolina
1992	10	John Terry	275	G	Livingstone
1992	11	Tim Daniel	302	WR	Florida A&M
1992	12	Don Harris	317	DB	Texas Tech

1993

January 31 1993 Dallas destroys Buffalo in XXVII 52-17

Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson wtih Super Bowl trophy

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1993	2	Kevin Williams	46	WR	Miami (FL)
1993	2	Darrin Smith	54	LB	Miami (FL)
1993	3	Mike Middleton	84	DB	Indiana
1993	4	Derrick Lassic	94	RB	Alabama
1993	4	Ron Stone	96	G	Boston Col.
1993	6	Barry Minter	168	LB	Tulsa
1993	7	Brock Marion	196	DB	Nevada
1993	8	Dave Thomas	203	DB	Tennessee
1993	8	Reggie Givens	213	LB	Penn St.

1994

1994: Cowboys owner Jerry Jones plans to expand the 65,000-seat Texas Stadium by 40,000 seats, add retractable roof panels and install a climate-control system to make the stadium a year-round venue for sporting events, including the Super Bowl, concerts, and conventions.
January 30 1994 Dallas replays 1993 and take out Buffalo 30-13 in Superbowl XXVIII
Tony Dorsett, Cowboy RB goes into the NFL Hall of Fame
Randy ‘The Manster’ White goes into the NFL Hall of Fame
Jackie Smith goes in NFL Hall of Fame. Only with Dallas one year but famous for dropping the tying TD pass in Super Bowl XIII against the Steelers.
March 29, 1994 – a day that will live in Cowboy infamy. At a hotel bar in Orlando, Jerry Jones tells reporters Rick Gosselin and Ed Werder, “There are 500 coaches who could have won the Super Bowl with our team.”
A week later Jerry and Jimmy part ways. Barry Switzer is hired as head coach

Barry Switzer replaced Jimmy Johnson as Head Coach. Courtesy Sports Illustrated, Image available on the Internet and included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1994	1	Shante Carver	23	DE	Arizona St.
1994	2	Larry Allen HOF	46	G	Sonoma St.
1994	3	George Hegamin	102	T	North Carolina St.
1994	4	Willie Jackson	109	WR	Florida
1994	4	DeWayne Dotson	131	LB	Mississippi
1994	6	Darren Studstill	191	DB	West Virginia
1994	7	Toddrick McIntosh	216	DE	Florida St.

1995

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1995	2	Sherman Williams	46	RB	Alabama
1995	2	Kendell Watkins	59	TE	Mississippi St.
1995	2	Shane Hannah	63	G	Michigan St.
1995	3	Charlie Williams	92	DB	Bowling Green
1995	4	Eric Bjornson	110	TE	Washington
1995	4	Alundis Brice	129	DB	Mississippi
1995	4	Linc Harden	130	LB	Oklahoma St.
1995	5	Edward Hervey	166	WR	USC
1995	5	Dana Howard	168	LB	Illinois
1995	7	Oscar Sturgis	236	DE	North Carolina

1996

January 28 1996 Dallas wins it’s 5th Superbowl over the Steelers, 27-17
Me Renfro joins the Hall of Fame at as a Cowboy S and CB

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1996	2	Kavika Pittman	37	DE	McNeese St.
1996	2	Randall Godfrey	49	LB	Georgia
1996	3	Clay Shiver	67	C	Florida St.
1996	3	Stepfret Williams	94	WR	La-Monroe
1996	3	Mike Ulufale	95	DT	BYU
1996	5	Kenneth McDaniel	157	T	Norfolk St.
1996	5	Alan Campos	167	LB	Louisville
1996	6	Wendell Davis	207	DB	Oklahoma
1996	7	Ryan Wood	243	RB	Arizona St.

1997

1997–2000: The Cowboys hold preliminary talks with Arlington officials about building a stadium there. The team also publicly discusses a $260 million plan to upgrade Texas Stadium. In 2000, the Cowboys compile a list of potential stadium sites, which include Grapevine, Coppell, and Arlington. The team continues negotiating with Irving to renovate Texas Stadium.

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1997	1	David LaFleur	22	TE	LSU
1997	3	Dexter Coakley	65	LB	Appalachian St.
1997	3	Steve Scifres	83	G	Wyoming
1997	3	Kenny Wheaton	94	DB	Oregon
1997	4	Antonio Anderson	101	DT	Syracuse
1997	4	Macey Brooks	127	WR	James Madison
1997	4	Nicky Sualua	129	RB	Ohio St.
1997	6	Lee Vaughn	187	DB	Wyoming
1997	7	Omar Stoutmire	224	DB	Fresno St.

1998

1998-2001: Training camp moved to Midwestern State in Wichita Falls
however in 2001, River Ridge Playing Field in Oxnard shared training camp
Tommy McDonald, Cowboy WR joins the NFL Hall of Fame

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1998	1	Greg Ellis	8	DE	North Carolina
1998	2	Flozell Adams	38	T	Michigan St.
1998	4	Michael Myers	100	DT	Alabama
1998	5	Darren Hambrick	130	LB	South Carolina
1998	5	Oliver Ross	138	T	Iowa St.
1998	6	Izell Reese	188	DB	Ala-Birmingham
1998	7	Tarik Smith	223	RB	California
1998	7	Antonio Fleming	227	G	Georgia
1998	7	Rodrick Monroe	237	TE	Cincinnati

1999

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
1999	1	Ebenezer Ekuban	20	DE	North Carolina
1999	2	Solomon Page	55	G	West Virginia
1999	3	Dat Nguyen	85	LB	Texas A&M
1999	4	Wane McGarity	118	WR	Texas
1999	4	Peppi Zellner	132	DE	Fort Valley St.
1999	6	MarTay Jenkins	193	WR	Nebraska-Omaha
1999	7	Mike Lucky	229	TE	Arizona
1999	7	Kelvin Garmon	243	G	Baylor

2000

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2000	2	Dwayne Goodrich	49	DB	Tennessee
2000	4	Kareem Larrimore	109	DB	West Texas A&M
2000	5	Michael Wiley	144	RB	Ohio St.
2000	6	Mario Edwards	180	DB	Florida St.
2000	7	Orantes Grant	219	LB	Georgia

2001

2001: Jones says Arlington is a leading contender for a $500 million stadium. The primary site considered is the 2,000 acres (810 ha) Lakes of Arlington tract on Farm Road 157. Other cities in the running include Grapevine and Grand Prairie. In October, Jones discusses the new stadium with the mayors of Arlington, Irving, Grapevine, and Dallas.

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2001	2	Quincy Carter	53	QB	Georgia
2001	2	Tony Dixon	56	DB	Alabama
2001	3	Willie Blade	93	DT	Mississippi St.
2001	4	Markus Steele	122	LB	USC
2001	5	Matt Lehr	137	C	Virginia Tech
2001	6	Daleroy Stewart	171	DT	Southern Miss
2001	7	Colston Weatherington	207	DE	Central Missouri St.
2001	7	John Nix	240	DT	Southern Miss
2001	7	Char-ron Dorsey	242	T	Florida St.

2002

2002-2003: Training camp at Alamodome in San Antonio

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2002	1	Roy Williams	8	DB	Oklahoma
2002	2	Andre Gurode	37	G	Colorado
2002	2	Antonio Bryant	63	WR	Pittsburgh
2002	3	Derek Ross	75	DB	Ohio St.
2002	4	Jamar Martin	129	FB	Ohio St.
2002	5	Pete Hunter	168	DB	Virginia Union
2002	6	Tyson Walter	179	C	Ohio St.
2002	6	DeVeren Johnson	208	WR	Sacred Heart
2002	6	Bob Slowikowski	211	TE	Virginia Tech

2003

2003: The Cowboys ask the Irving City Council to extend their lease at Texas Stadium, which expires at the end of the 2008 season, on a year-to-year basis. They narrow their search to sites in Las Colinas and Dallas, and state legislators file bills that would allow Dallas County to increase its hotel occupancy and car rental taxes to pay for a new stadium.

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2003	1	Terence Newman	5	DB	Kansas St.
2003	2	Al Johnson	38	C	Wisconsin
2003	3	Jason Witten	69	TE	Tennessee
2003	4	Bradie James	103	LB	LSU
2003	6	B.J. Tucker	178	DB	Wisconsin
2003	6	Zuriel Smith	186	WR	Hampton
2003	7	Justin Bates	219	G	Colorado

2004

April 2004: Cowboys announce plans to build a $650 million stadium at Fair Park in Dallas. The deal requires $425 million in public financing from a 3% hotel-occupancy tax and a 6% car-rental tax.
June 2004; American Airlines Center is a “major obstacle” to building a Dallas Cowboys stadium in Fair Park, Mayor Laura Miller and several City Council members said Wednesday.

“We should not have structured the deal like we did,” the mayor said, explaining that a noncompete clause in the arena’s contract with the city is complicating negotiations with the Cowboys. “It’s a big problem. American Airlines Center keeps saying, ‘You can’t do this; you can’t do that.’ Our attorneys are going to continue to work on it.”

The city’s 1998 contract with American Airlines Center says the city cannot participate in the building of a stadium that would seat between 5,000 and 50,000 people and therefore compete with the arena for concerts and family events.
The deal falls apart in June when Dallas County commissioners say they cannot justify asking voters to approve the team’s request for $425 million in public funding.
Dallas Mayor Laura Miller made a last ditch effort to keep the Cowboys in Dallas offering a hotel tax that matched the one the county turned down. Arlington offered to pay$325 mil for the stadium plus raise other funding and Dallas wouldn’t match. (Ms Miller said they simply didnt have the money) ( Texas Monthly, Feb 2006)
In July, the Cowboys and Arlington announce they are negotiating to locate the stadium near Globe Life Park (then Ameriquest Field). In August, the Arlington City Council agrees unanimously to put before voters a tax increase that would fund the city’s $325 million portion of the project. Voters approve the tax increase on November 2.
2004-2006: Training camp at River Ridge in Oxnard, CA

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2004	2	Julius Jones	43	RB	Notre Dame
2004	2	Jacob Rogers	52	T	USC
2004	3	Stephen Peterman	83	G	LSU
2004	4	Bruce Thornton	121	DB	Georgia
2004	5	Sean Ryan	144	TE	Boston Col.
2004	7	Nate Jones	205	DB	Rutgers
2004	7	Patrick Crayton	216	WR	NW Oklahoma St.
2004	7	Jacques Reeves	223	DB	Purdue

2005

2005: Arlington and the Cowboys choose the site south of Randol Mill Road and east of Collins Street for the new stadium. The city begins notifying residents and property owners of its plans to acquire their property. The Cowboys hire the HKS architectural firm to design the stadium. Early blueprints show 414 luxury suites and a two-panel retractable roof. The city completes its sale of $297.9 million in bonds to pay for its portion of the construction. Demolition of houses begins November 1.

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2005	1	DeMarcus Ware	11	LB	Troy
2005	1	Marcus Spears	20	DE	LSU
2005	2	Kevin Burnett	42	LB	Tennessee
2005	4	Marion Barber III	109	RB	Minnesota
2005	4	Chris Canty	132	DE	Virginia
2005	6	Justin Beriault	208	DB	Ball St.
2005	6	Rob Petitti	209	T	Pittsburgh
2005	7	Jay Ratliff	224	DE	Auburn

2006

January 2006: The Cowboys hired Oklahoma-based Manhattan Construction as the general contractor for the stadium and the city completes its land purchases, although it still faces a number of lawsuits over land acquisition. Later that month, Tarrant County work crews begin demolition of more than 150 Arlington residences and small business structures to make room for the stadium.
March 2006: Alliance announced between Manhattan Construction and two general contractors, Rayco Construction of Grand Prairie and 3i Construction of Dallas, to manage the stadium’s construction.
April 2006: Excavation begins by Mario Sinacola and Sons Excavating. By August, they had moved over 1.4 million cubic yards of earth, shaping a 13-to-14-acre (5.3 to 5.7 ha) stadium bowl an average of 54 feet (16 m) deep.
October 2006: The grass amphitheater on Randol Mill Road is leveled to make way for the extension of Baird Farm Road.
December 2006: The stadium’s structure begins to go up and on December 12, Jerry Jones unveils the in-depth plans and designs of the stadium to the public.
Troy Aikman goes into NFL Hall of Fame as a Cowboy QB
‘Big Cat’ Rayfield Wright, Cowboy OT goes into NFL Hall of Fame

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2006	1	Bobby Carpenter	18	LB	Ohio St.
2006	2	Anthony Fasano	53	TE	Notre Dame
2006	3	Jason Hatcher	92	DE	Grambling St.
2006	4	Skyler Green	125	WR	LSU
2006	5	Pat Watkins	138	DB	Florida St.
2006	6	Montavious Stanley	182	DT	Louisville
2006	7	Pat McQuistan	211	T	Weber St.
2006	7	E.J. Whitley	224	C	Texas Tech

2007

January 2007: A construction worker is injured in a 20 ft fall.
June 2008: Jones commissions the world’s largest 1080 HDTV, to hang above field. An electrician is electrocuted while working on the stadium. Two days before, three people were injured while assembling a crane.
Training camp at Alamodome
WR Micheal Irvin goes into NFL Hall of Fame

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2007	1	Anthony Spencer	26	DE	Purdue
2007	3	James Marten	67	T	Boston Col.
2007	4	Isaiah Stanback	103	QB	Washington
2007	4	Doug Free	122	T	Northern Illinois
2007	6	Nick Folk	178	K	Arizona
2007	6	Deon Anderson	195	FB	Connecticut
2007	7	Courtney Brown	212	DB	Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo
2007	7	Alan Ball	237	DB	Illinois

2008

2008 and 2010 Training camp at River Ridge in Oxnard

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2008	1	Felix Jones	22	RB	Arkansas
2008	1	Mike Jenkins	25	DB	South Florida
2008	2	Martellus Bennett	61	TE	Texas A&M
2008	4	Tashard Choice	122	RB	Georgia Tech
2008	5	Orlando Scandrick	143	DB	Boise St.
2008	6	Erik Walden	167	DE	Middle Tenn. St.

2009

2009: The stadium is scheduled for ‘substantial completion’ in June. The artificial-turf field was brought into the stadium in July. The Cowboys played their first pre-season home game on August 21 and their first regular-season home game on Sunday, September 20.
May 2, 2009 Rich Behm is paralyzed and 11 others hurt when straightline winds take out a tent at Valley Ranch.
May 13, 2009: Jerry Jones announced the official name of the new venue as Cowboys Stadium.
2009 and 2011: Training camp at Alamodome in San Antonio
September 20, 2009: The Cowboys played their first NFL regular season game in the new stadium, . The Cowboys lose to the Giants 33–31 on a last second field goal by Lawrence Tynes. It was televised on NBC. This game attracted a record-breaking crowd of 105,121.
‘Bullet’ Bob Hayes finally goes into the NFL Hall of Fame

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2009	3	Jason Williams	69	LB	West. Illinois
2009	3	Robert Brewster	75	T	Ball St.
2009	4	Stephen McGee	101	QB	Texas A&M
2009	4	Victor Butler	110	LB	Oregon St.
2009	4	Brandon Williams	120	DE	Texas Tech
2009	5	DeAngelo Smith	143	DB	Cincinnati
2009	5	Michael Hamlin	166	DB	Clemson
2009	5	David Buehler	172	K	USC
2009	6	Stephen Hodge	197	DB	TCU
2009	6	John Phillips	208	TE	Virginia
2009	7	Mike Mickens	227	DB	Cincinnati
2009	7	Manuel Johnson	229	WR	Oklahoma

2010

Emmitt Smith, NFL all time rushing leader is a first ballot NFL Hall of Famer

Emmitt Smith celebrates breaking the NFL All-Time Rushing Record. Courtesy of Michael Wood Photography. Image available on the Internet and included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2010	1	Dez Bryant	24	WR	Oklahoma St.
2010	2	Sean Lee	55	LB	Penn St.
2010	4	Akwasi Owusu-Ansah	126	DB	Indiana (PA)
2010	6	Sam Young	179	T	Notre Dame
2010	6	Jamar Wall	196	DB	Texas Tech
2010	7	Sean Lissemore	234	DT	William & Mary

2011

February 6, 2011: The 2010 NFL Season Super Bowl was hosted at the Cowboys Stadium, which saw the Green Bay Packers defeat the Pittsburgh Steelers in Super Bowl XLV. It was in the middle of a sudden snow and ice storm where several guests were struck by ice sliding off the roof. The City of Arlington had no capabilities for ice of this magnitude.
Deion ‘Primetime’ Sanders goes into NFL Hall of Fame

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2011	1	Tyron Smith	9	T	USC
2011	2	Bruce Carter	40	LB	North Carolina
2011	3	DeMarco Murray	71	RB	Oklahoma
2011	4	David Arkin	110	G	Missouri State
2011	5	Josh Thomas	143	DB	Buffalo
2011	6	Dwayne Harris	176	WR	East Carolina
2011	7	Shaun Chapas	220	RB	Georgia
2011	7	Bill Nagy	252	G	Wisconsin

2012

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2012	1	Morris Claiborne	6	DB	LSU
2012	3	Tyrone Crawford	81	DE	Boise St.
2012	4	Kyle Wilber	113	LB	Wake Forest
2012	4	Matt Johnson	135	DB	East. Washington
2012	5	Danny Coale	152	WR	Virginia Tech
2012	6	James Hanna	186	TE	Oklahoma
2012	7	Caleb McSurdy	222	LB	Montana

2013

July 25, 2013: Jerry Jones announced that the official name of the venue was changed to AT&T Stadium as part of a naming rights deal.
Larry Allen, OT and OG for us goes into NFL Hall of Fame
Bill Parcells, Cowboys Head Coach goes into NFL Hall of Fame
The Star project was announced in 2013 as a partnership between the City of Frisco and the Dallas Cowboys as part of the “$5 Billion Mile” in Frisco Station, Texas. The Ford Center is part of a 91-acre development called The Star that includes the Dallas Cowboys’ team headquarters and training facility which moved from Valley Ranch, Texas, a 300-room Omni Hotel, the Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor Walk, and retail and restaurant space. The Ford Center at The Star aside from the main stadium features practice fields and a sports training complex called the “Baylor Scott & White Sports Therapy & Research center for sports medicine”
The Star becomes the 7th and current practice facility for the Dallas Cowboys.

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2013	1	Travis Frederick	31	C	Wisconsin
2013	2	Gavin Escobar	47	TE	San Diego St.
2013	3	Terrance Williams	74	WR	Baylor
2013	3	J.J. Wilcox	80	DB	Georgia Southern
2013	4	B.W. Webb	114	DB	William & Mary
2013	5	Joseph Randle	151	RB	Oklahoma St.
2013	6	DeVonte Holloman	185	LB	South Carolina

2014

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2014	1	Zack Martin	16	G	Notre Dame
2014	2	DeMarcus Lawrence	34	DE	Boise St.
2014	4	Anthony Hitchens	119	LB	Iowa
2014	5	Devin Street	146	WR	Pittsburgh
2014	7	Ben Gardner	231	DE	Stanford
2014	7	Will Smith	238	LB	Texas Tech
2014	7	Ahmad Dixon	248	DB	Baylor
2014	7	Ken Bishop	251	DT	Northern Illinois
2014	7	Terrance Mitchell	254	DB	Oregon

2015

Charles Haley, DE and LB goes into NFL Hall of Fame

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2015	1	Byron Jones	27	CB	Connecticut
2015	2	Randy Gregory	60	OLB	Nebraska
2015	3	Chaz Green	91	T	Florida
2015	4	Damien Wilson	127	ILB	Minnesota
2015	5	Ryan Russell	163	DE	Purdue
2015	7	Mark Nzeocha	236	OLB	Wyoming
2015	7	Laurence Gibson	243	T	Virginia Tech
2015	7	Geoff Swaim	246	TE	Texas

2016

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2016	1	Ezekiel Elliott	4	RB	Ohio St.
2016	2	Jaylon Smith	34	OLB	Notre Dame
2016	3	Maliek Collins	67	DT	Nebraska
2016	4	Charles Tapper	101	DE	Oklahoma
2016	4	Dak Prescott	135	QB	Mississippi St.
2016	6	Anthony Brown	189	CB	Purdue
2016	6	Kavon Frazier	212	S	Central Michigan
2016	6	Darius Jackson	216	RB	East. Michigan
2016	6	Rico Gathers	217	TE	Baylor

2017

Jerry Jones goes into NFL Hall of Fame as an owner

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2017	1	Taco Charlton	28	DE	Michigan
2017	2	Chidobe Awuzie	60	CB	Colorado
2017	3	Jourdan Lewis	92	CB	Michigan
2017	4	Ryan Switzer	133	WR	North Carolina
2017	6	Xavier Woods	191	S	Louisiana Tech
2017	6	Marquez White	216	CB	Florida St.
2017	7	Joey Ivie	228	DT	Florida
2017	7	Noah Brown	239	WR	Ohio St.
2017	7	Jordan Carrell	246	DT	Colorado

2018

WR Terrell Owens goes into NFL Hall of Fame

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2018	1	Leighton Vander Esch	19	OLB	Boise St.
2018	2	Connor Williams	50	T	Texas
2018	3	Michael Gallup	81	WR	Colorado St.
2018	4	Dorance Armstrong Jr.	116	DE	Kansas
2018	4	Dalton Schultz	137	TE	Stanford
2018	5	Mike White	171	QB	Western Kentucky
2018	6	Chris Covington	193	LB	Indiana
2018	6	Cedrick Wilson	208	WR	Boise St.
2018	7	Bo Scarbrough	236	RB	Alabama

2019

Gil Brandt becomes the first Director of Player Personnel in the NFL Hall of Fame

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2019	2	Trysten Hill	58	DT	Central Florida
2019	3	Connor McGovern	90	G	Penn St.
2019	4	Tony Pollard	128	RB	Memphis
2019	5	Michael Jackson	158	CB	Miami (FL)
2019	5	Joe Jackson	165	DE	Miami (FL)
2019	6	Donovan Wilson	213	S	Texas A&M
2019	7	Mike Weber	218	RB	Ohio St.
2019	7	Jalen Jelks	241	DE	Oregon

2020

Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	College/Univ
2020	1	CeeDee Lamb	17	WR	Oklahoma
2020	2	Trevon Diggs	51	CB	Alabama
2020	3	Neville Gallimore	82	DT	Oklahoma
2020	4	Reggie Robinson II	123	CB	Tulsa
2020	4	Tyler Biadasz	146	C	Wisconsin
2020	5	Bradlee Anae	179	DE	Utah
2020	7	Ben DiNucci	231	QB	James Madison

If you haven’t read our interview with Cowboy All Pro LB Thomas ‘Hollywood’ Henderson, go to https://meminc.org/thomashenderson/

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CHARLIE WATERS & THE ALLIGATOR SHOES

meminc — Sun, 17 Jan 2021 23:37:00 +0000

Charlie Waters and the Alligator Shoes

Charlie Waters at Safety for the Dallas Cowboys, courtesy Clemson University and Charlie Waters

by Paul Heckmann

Executive Director, Memories Inc.

“If I had 45 players that tried as hard and cared as much as Charlie did, we would not lose a football game.”
Dallas Cowboys Coach Tom Landry

To preface a bit, Charlie was a veritable encyclopedia of football, the consummate NFL pro. Very smart, very articulate and needed absolutely no direction from me to tell his story! He jumped right in. I simply turned on the recorder and let him tell it the way he remembered.
—

Paul: After talking with you a bit before the interview, I will let you take your story the direction that you want to go. Go for it!

Charlie Waters: We were on the cutting edge in preparation.

Paul Heckmann: I was gonna go into this a little bit later on, but you worked with Bob Ward quite a bit didn’t you?

Charlie: Yes, I did. Bob taught me an awful lot about body control, self-control, and strength, and perfect practice makes perfect, not practice makes perfect. But his individual, one on one contact and what you look at is the key to everything. And so if you’re not real serious about it, that doesn’t mean a damn thing to you. But I was real serious about it because it meant a lot to me, to perform. And so, it was great. Bob was a great inspiration. There’s two or three things that he did that really helped me. He increased the strength of my grip. And nobody ever thinks about that, about being able to grab somebody and hold on.

Cowboy Strength and Conditioning coach Bob Ward with Bruce Lee training partner Dan Inosanto. Photo courtesy the internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

Bob Ward taught us all that stuff. And he was so unique and modernized, Dan Inosanto was his teacher. Dan was taught by Bruce Lee.

I owe an awful lot to Bob, he’s very, very progressive in his thinking.

Paul: Did you know Paul Ward, his brother?

Charlie: No.

Paul: Paul was one of the coaches for the Olympic weight lifting team. I knew him from HTCA and a couple other places out there. He worked with Sammy Walker too, the big shotput guy from SMU. He was on the Olympic weightlifting team.

Charlie: You talk about some timing and coordination. That’s a Hell of a thing, spin around like that, and throw that sucker out. I don’t know how in the world you all did that.

Paul: Well, we used the old glide technique. And about when I was coming in was when we started doing that turn. And that was a mess, for me. I’m in Webster’s when it talks about the guy with two left feet.

Charlie: I’m glad we can laugh about it now.

Paul: Oh, my God.

You know, I think you and I might have met before. I was the maître d’ at the Playboy Club not long after it first opened. Y’all were upstairs, a couple floors above us, there at 6116 North Central. I was the maître d’ there for the first year, in the front. In the disco.

Charlie: Did you ever meet me?

Paul: I’m thinking we must’ve run across each other. Then I left for Papagayo and daVinci after that for the next three or four years. So, we must’ve crossed paths at least once or twice during that time period.

Charlie: I’m sure we did. The Greenville Ave bars.

Paul: Harvey and Too Tall were regulars at Papagayo. They kinda had that corner of that first bar to your right when you came up. That was their place. Everybody knew to stay away from that corner because they’d be coming in. And you hear this voice from around the corner, and you know instantly it’s Harvey. He had that deep Harvey voice.

Charlie: So, why are you doing with this interview?

Paul: We have just started a new Facebook Football page for Memories Inc called Memories of Texas Football. I interviewed John Fitzgerald Booty for our first football interviews. Carthage kid that played at Cisco and TCU before a 9 year NFL career. For the Memories of Dallas Facebook page and webpage, I interviewed Barry Corbin about a month and a half ago. The actor that did Northern Exposure, he played Uncle Bob in Urban Cowboy – the fellow got knocked out by lightning, you know, John Travolta’s uncle. Also just did one with Burton Gilliam, from Blazing Saddles and Papermoon.

Charlie: Burton’s a good friend of mine, too.

Paul: We had a blast. He’s one of these guys you can sit there and just talk to, and talk to, and talk to, and every moment it just seems like he got that big smile. I really had a great time talking to him.

Memories of Dallas and Memories of Texas Football are two things we’re looking at for your interview.

Our 501c3 Non-Profit, Memories Inc. has been around for a little over two years.

Do you know Angus Wynne by chance?

Charlie: I do. I know Angus quite well.

Paul: Yeah. Angus is on our Board of Directors (emeritus now)

Charlie: Angus Wynne is legitimate. He’s special. Tell him that I said hello and along with Rosie. He knows Rosie.

Paul: Will do!

So, let’s get back to Charlie Waters. Now you were born in Miami, how old were you when you moved to North Augusta?

Charlie: I was 10 years old. My dad was a crane operator. In other words, he was in the construction business. So, there’s some opportunities from the a nuclear power plant out there on the Savanna River, right after the second World War, in the ‘50s. So there was some opportunity for construction work. So that’s when we moved to South Carolina. My mom was from Maryland, and my dad was raised in Georgia. So, I had three older brothers. My oldest brother was a half-brother, but my two other brothers, one was three years older than me, and he was a really good athlete.

Paul: Was that Keith?

Charlie: Yes. You did your homework. That’s Keith. He was really, really a good baseball player, and basketball player. Not much of football. Really not that tough. I didn’t know I was as tough as I was back then. We were baseball players. We loved baseball.

So yeah, we moved there to North Augusta when I was 10 and started in baseball.

Paul: Gotcha. Now it looked to me – I was looking on the map there, in some of the photos. That looked like a great area for hunting and fishing and stuff like that. Is that something you guys did?

Charlie: No, I never got into that. We never could. We barely had enough money to put food on the table.

Paul: I see.

Charlie: My dad was, as I said, was a construction worker, and it was – I had one baseball glove the whole time I was growing up. Playing five years of baseball. And Keith, my brother, got a baseball scholarship to Clemson. Surprisingly, it was just about the time I signed as a quarterback for Clemson, my brother got a baseball scholarship to Clemson. Go figure.

He’s three years older that I was. And when I signed with Clemson, they gave him a scholarship.

Paul: Oh. I see.

Charlie: He earned it, but it didn’t happen until I signed with Clemson.

Paul: Was that supposed to be, maybe, an enticement? For you to sign?

Charlie: Yes. Those kind of things happen. If he didn’t deserve it, I

Charlie set to score for the Tigers. Per Clemson Sports

don’t think they would’ve done it, you know? But it just made things a little bit easier for me to sign with Clemson. Because they wanted me to play quarterback, and Alabama wanted me to play running back, or wide receiver, or defensive back, and Georgia wanted me to play running back. Tennessee wanted me to play wide receiver. So, Clemson said they thought I was a quarterback. In reality I really wasn’t a quarterback. Those other guys were right. And I eventually did move to wide receiver three quarters of the way through my second year as a starter. I broke my big toe and had to sit out a game. Then the guy who took my place had a Hell of a game. So, when I came back a couple weeks later, he got his shot out there every week. From then on, I started playing wide receiver. I caught 68 passes at Clemson, which was unheard of, considering they were three yards in a cloud of dust. The Frank Howard days.

Frank Howard, Clemson coach when Charlie was there. Courtesy Clemson Sports

Paul: Frank Howard. Absolutely.

Charlie: Frank Howard days were just a trip, man. You’re talking about a strange comparison between him and Tom Landry.

Paul: Well, tell me about Frank Howard.

Charlie: Well, he was tough. That’s one thing he did, made sure we all knew that you had to be tough to play football. But he was at the end of his career, and he was almost like a comedian. He used to say, boy, the things I remember…

“Boy, you believe in magic?”

That’s what he asked me one time when I was – after I’d moved to wide receiver, our quarterback got hurt, in the game.

Paul: (laughs) Well, I was sitting here trying to think of Tom Landry saying the same thing.

Charlie: Yeah. Just go to Tom Landry and then go to Frank Howard.

But he believed in me. He did. I remember one time, this is when I was still playing quarterback.

We were playing Alabama in Clemson. And we got within field goal range of them in the fourth quarter. Or early in the third quarter, we started coming back. And our kicker misses a kick. I was a holder. Our kicker misses a 37 yard chip shot. And that would’ve tied the game. And coach Howard met him 15 yards before he got to the sideline, and called him a gutless m*****r f*****r. I mean, I said ‘Coach, it doesn’t take guts to be a kicker’. What do you mean, gutless? And I said, we got the whole fourth quarter ahead. Don’t be doing that to our kicker. He met him on the field and chewed him out.

Another one he used to say to us was, some us got into fraternity life at Clemson, which was kinda fun to do that. But he said, “I don’t think you should be joining a fraternity. We got our own fraternity. Just call that Delta Phi.” Is that hilarious?

Texas Tech DB Denton Fox, West Texas State Duane Thomas, BC DL John Fitzgerald and Clemson WR Charlie Waters at the 1970 Coach’s All America game in Lubbock. All were Dallas draft picks, Thomas in the 1st, Waters and Fox in the 3rd and Fitzgerald in the 4th. Courtesy Don Williams Lubbockonline.com and USA Today

I mean, he was a comedian. And I went from that to Tom Landry, and I was going ‘Oh, my God.’ Thank God there is someone else going on out there in the world, this world of football. Such a trip. X-rated, and his son was very colorful too. Anyway, Frank Howard, as I said, we had some good coaches on our staff.

Anyway, I had an interesting time at Clemson, and sure enough, Georgia and Alabama and Tennessee, they were all right on – when I got out of there, I was a wide receiver, quarterback turned wide receiver.

And in the draft Green Bay said okay, we’re gonna pick you in the next round. So Green Bay tells me tells me I’m gonna be picked as a wide receiver and I’m saying, all right, all right. Bart Starr! this is great.

And then the next thing I know, I get a call from Gil Brandt. He says, Charlie, can you run backwards?

Paul: (Laughs) ‘What do you mean Gil?’

Charlie: Yeah, what do you mean? Well, we just picked you as a defensive back in the third round in the 1970 draft. We’re hoping you can run backwards.

I said, what about tackling? Don’t I have to know how to tackle? So anyway, it was the beginning.

Paul: That is wild.

Charlie: All of that, everything that’s happened to me during my career at different places in time with the Cowboys is all been, when you look at the grand scheme of things, I’m so thankful I’ve played these other positions. I knew so much more than everybody else.

Because you’re very narrow if you just stay in your one position your whole career. It’s hard for you to broaden your horizons. And you know, Coach Landry was a quarterback in college as well. And he saw something in me that a lot of people didn’t see and I really am thankful that he took me under his wing.

We had a pretty rough year, one year, my second year in the league. My first two years in the league, I just make the team as a backup. I was a backup doing safety and played on special teams. If you don’t mind me going through this.

Paul: Not at all. You’re covering point by point what I was gonna ask you. So, it’s perfect.

Charlie: Okay. So, my rookie year, I barely make the team but I make the team as a backup. And we had Richmond Flowers was the backup free safety, Cliff Harris makes it as a free agent and starts the first five games his rookie year. We have Cornell Green playing strong safety, and I was playing backup SS

Paul: A basketball player?

Charlie: A basketball player.

Gil Brandt at his induction into the NFL Hall of Fame. Courtesy NFL Hall of Fame

Paul: A basketball player and a quarterback turned defensive back.

Charlie: And Gil Brandt is the reason for all of that, without a doubt.

Paul: I know, crazy.

Charlie: Gil Brandt was a genius, and don’t tell him I said that, but he is pretty special.

Paul: We won’t… wink-wink.

Charlie: Oh, he’s a fascinating interview. You need to call him. Ask him to tell the story about alligator shoes.

Paul: Alligator shoes? Oh, my God. (We lost Mr. Brandt since this interview, before I could chat with him. May he rest in peace.)

Charlie: Yeah. I gotta tell you this one story. It’s just so funny.

Gil Brandt drafts me in the third round, and he comes out to South Carolina, and visits me at Clemson. Shows up in a really nice suit, and had a pair of brown alligator tassel shoes. And I had nothing growing up. I mean, we never celebrated a birthday at our house because we didn’t have any money to celebrate a birthday. It’s better to put potatoes on the dining room table than to have a birthday. So, I look at those alligator shoes, and Gil’s up there, and he came to visit me the first time, and I don’t know what he offered me but he didn’t offer what I thought was appropriate. I got some advice from a football player that played at Clemson and then in the NFL on contracts.

So Gil makes me this offer, but I don’t sign and I complimented him on his alligator shoes. Well, about 10 days later I received in the mail, special delivery to me a pair of alligator shoes. They are beautiful. I’m going, this is big time. I am in the big leagues. So, I go another two weeks, maybe three weeks and I don’t sign. But eventually I do sign. I think he gave me $17,000 signing bonus. And $15,000 salary.

Paul: Now, this is 1970, isn’t it?

Charlie: 1970. $15,000 my rookie year as a third round draft pick. So, I signed, and they sent the contract to me. And I signed the contract, and I sent it back to him. He sends me my bonus check, I think I made $3000 bonus. My first year salary was $15,000.

And four days later, after he’d sent me that money, he sent me an invoice in the mail for the alligator shoes!

Paul: (laughs) God dang it!

Charlie: Is that classic or what?

So, now I can talk about this stuff. And then the next thing I know that happens, that’s pretty monumental for me, is Cliff Harris comes in as a free agent, and they keep three rookies. They keep me, Cliff Harris, and Richmond Flowers. Richmond Flowers was an Olympic sprinter, or hurdler. You remember that name?

Paul: I remember that. He could fly!

Charlie: He could fly. But he was goofy. He wasn’t football smart at all. He would step up and tell you that. And he was the backup at free safety and I was a backup at strong safety. After five games, Cliff started all five of the first games and we were I think four and one at the time. Cliff’s National Guard unit got called up to active duty.

So, Richmond Flowers starts the first game, and he tripped a guy on the sideline when he had a chance to knock a guy out. He came in feet first instead of head first, and I remember looking at Coach Landry, he just rolled his eyes up in the air, like who is this guy? So, the next week I start as free safety. I’m 21 years old, I’ve never played defensive back in my life, playing a game against the Green Bay Packers I tackle Bart Starr on the sideline and I ask him for his autograph while I was laying on top of him. But anyway, I ended up leading the team in interceptions. I started six games and got five interceptions. I was the only rookie in the lineup, just like Cliff was the only rookie in the lineup before his callup.

Cliff had to go off to boot camp, but he could come home on the weekends, and he played on special teams. And he and I were best friends. I can’t imagine how uncomfortable that was for him. I mean, that just was horrible. But that was my first year, and it was fascinating to me. We went to the Super Bowl, and I was involved in the Super Bowl an awful lot, for sure. But we lost. And right at the end, Jim O’Brien kicked a field goal and beat us. Then the next year, I was competing with Cliff for free safety. And Cliff was a better free safety than I was, without a doubt, because he had a certain style of play that reminded you that football was a contact sport.

Charlie Waters and Cliff Harris

Paul: I heard him described as ‘a bag of knives’.

Charlie: Yep, he was called Captain Crash. And everybody referenced him as Captain Crash. And your collateral damage was also a factor. He’ll even hit people but he’d also hit us. Herb Adderley grabbed his jersey one day and said, ‘Cliff, quit hitting me! I’m on the same dang team as you are!’

So anyway, Cliff was gonna blow somebody up on every play, and that‘s what he did. He just reminded everybody that it’s a physical game. So, I had the experience of playing free safety for two years, but then the next year I was going back as a backup to Cornell. That same year when Cliff came back, I ended up being a backup at both free safety and strong safety but I never started any games. I played as a backup role and I played a nickel defense and specialty defense.

Paul: 1972?

Charlie: 1971. 1970 was my first year, and 1971 was the year that I came back as a backup behind Cliff. ’70, I played the last six games and led the team interceptions. So, here the next year comes rolling around, and I’m supposed to be a safety. I’m supposed to be a backup safety behind Cornell Green, this is his 12th year in the league or something like that, 10th year in the league. And he was on top of his game. He was an all pro. He was a hell of a player. 6’4″, had the worst hands in the world for a basketball player, but really smart gentleman with hilarious personality. Great player. Really loved him to death as a friend.

Herb Adderley starts slowing down, not putting his face into tackles, which didn’t suit Gene Stallings and also Tom Landry too well. So they tried another corner, Mark Washington, who was in my class. He didn’t fare too well, and the next thing you know, I’m starting at corner.

Here I am now, I’ve played wide receiver, played quarterback, played wide receiver, and then played strong safety, then I played free safety, and now they move me to corner. And I’m the left corner spot and most quarterbacks in the league are right handed (most likely area of the field to attack). And Mel Renfro is the other corner. So, where are they gonna throw it?

And that’s where they threw it, they threw it at me. And so I learned all the techniques, and it was difficult for me, but I got beat one time, Harold Jackson (for the Rams) I think he scored three touchdowns in the game. They weren’t all my fault, but everybody thought they were all my fault. So we got the training room the next day, we were watching the films. Coach Landry got in there and said “Look, Charlie had a rough day yesterday, but I’ll tell you one thing,” and this is what Coach Landry said. And he got me for life when he said this…

“If I had 45 players that tried as hard and cared as much as Charlie did, we would not lose a football game.”

Tom Landry and Roger Staubach, courtesy Washington Times

That’s what he said in front of the team, when we went in to watch the films the next day after the game. And I mean, I just – it sends chills up my spine today to tell the story. I mean, what in the hell did he see? He saw something, and so I ended up playing pretty good. We won, but we missed the playoffs one year, it was the only year we missed the playoffs the whole time I played in the NFL. We made playoffs 11 out of my 12 years. And we missed one year when I was playing corner. I kinda took on the brunt of it, but here’s the blessing in disguise, silver coated lining, here. I learned all the techniques of free safety, I learned all of them because I played it for two years. And then I learned corner for three years, off and on. I was starting sometimes, sometimes backup but led the team in interceptions a couple years.

Gene Stallings, Charlie Waters and Cliff HarrisPhoto courtesy the internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

But I learned every technique that Tom Landry was teaching. And every technique Gene Stallings was teaching from a hands on scenario, I mean, I played it. I knew it. I knew exactly what was happening. If anything, I understood how to play football. Especially since I played quarterback, wide receiver, and all the other positions. So after my fifth year in the league, Cornell Green retires. And the next year I make All Pro at Strong Safety. Coach Landry called me in, told me I was gonna start controlling the defense along with the middle linebacker, you know.

Landry’s Flex defense was so coordinated and so complicated. All I’m telling you, it’s complicated. I can’t even explain it to you now. I think I knew a good bit of the defensive back component of it, but I didn’t understand the frog stance that the defensive lineman used.

Randy White and Charlie Waters comparing abs

Paul: Randy White.

Charlie: Yeah. And so, you think nobody else in the league played the Flex defense. Well, duh. You know why? Nobody else understood it, except for Dick Nolan – and when Dick Nolan tried to play it, he ended up giving up on it. It’s just too hard to teach, and too complicated, but genius, it was all Tom Landry. So then I’m starting to think how in the world did this happen? Frank Howard, Tom Landry? So my first year we went to the Super Bowl, went to the Super Bowl five times in my career. We won two.

Paul: Isn’t it something? Some players, they play their whole career and never make a single Super Bowl.

Charlie: I know. We made the playoffs every year except one. And Landry was so incredibly intense, there was nothing left unturned. There wasn’t one stone still laying on the table. You picked it up, you look at it, you figure it out, it’s a stone, we’re gonna kick the s**t out of them when we do this. If you’re gonna make a mistake, if you’re gonna do something on your own or if you make a mistake, you damn sure better make the play. Because it’s all based on everybody being coordinated with each other. It is a coordinated defense. And every formation had its own defense design for that week. And guess who had to let everybody in the secondary know what was going on, and that was me.

Charlie Waters, circa 1972. It was the era of helmet hair. I had it too!

I played both free safety and strong safety, so I was ready to take that on. And I had a lot better hands than Cornell Green. Cornell should’ve had 50 interceptions. I had 50 interceptions in my career.

Paul: So I hear, there was a poll in 1975, ‘the most underrated, unsung, and all probability underpaid player in the NFL’, and they said that was Charlie Waters, 1975.

Charlie: Yeah, I won the Sports Illustrated unsung hero award two years in a row. Two years in a row, but you know, if you get unsung, if you get an unsung hero, don’t you get sung?

Paul: (Laughs)

Charlie: That ain’t right. So I mean, I played one year with a broken arm when I was playing corner.

I don’t know if you got the book that Cliff and I wrote. But I played the whole season with a rod in my arm. The humerus is the second largest bone on the body. And I had a rod in there. Now you know how stupid we were. Because if you don’t play, somebody’s gonna take your place. And if you don’t play well, somebody’s gonna take your place.

Paul: Oh, yeah.

Charlie: That’s just the way it is.

Paul: I crushed my elbow two years ago in a bicycle accident. And they had to rebuild my elbow, and I just had that bolt removed, probably the same bolt you had. They probably used it in my arm, too, and they just finally took it out after two years. So, I can feel for ya, it’s never the same. It doesn’t matter what they tell you, it doesn’t feel the same, tendons don’t feel the same, nothing feels the same.

Charlie: Nope. That’s right. My rod in my arm was 18 inches long. It was a titanium rod. And let me tell you something, every bone in my body would’ve broken before that bone broke.

Paul: We know the six million dollar man would not work.

Charlie: No, it wouldn’t work. But I really believe that if you can figure out a way to make the joints move a little smoother, guys that are 30 years old, their careers could be extended. Because that’s what you start understanding football is when you turn 30 years old.

Paul: So, let me ask you about – jumping back for a minute to 1971. Now you’ve got to another Super Bowl, you got a win over the Dolphins. And your dad had a near fatal heart attack in the stands.

Charlie: That’s correct. Near the end of the game, it was really a come from behind, it was dramatic, and of course Roger worked magic, miracles and stuff.

But yeah, (my dad) he keeled over in the stands. He was older, and he eventually died from a heart attack, but he recovered and I found out about it in the locker room. My dad was a strong man, had a second grade education. He said, I might be a ditch digger, but I’m gonna be the best ditch digger anybody ever needed. I will do it perfectly. So, he was a very special, tough man, wouldn’t give up. Four boys in his family.

Paul: He taught you something, didn’t he?

Charlie: Yeah he did.

Paul: That’s for sure. Sorry to hear hear of his passing.

My dad used to say, there’s a start and an end to every story. He died on a Friday the 13th. I think he did it on purpose, my dad. I swear to God, that man had a purpose for everything he did, and he dies on a Friday the 13th, like ‘I’m not gonna let you forget it, son.’

Charlie: Wow, that’s hilarious.

Paul: I think that’s what they call dark humor. It’s kinda like, how can you not grin, no matter if it’s your dad or not?

Getting back to football, you you played for 12 years?

Charlie: I sat out one year. So, I only got on the field 11 years but I got credit for 12 years. Because if you get hurt in the regular season or in the preseason, you get credit for that season. You get your money and you get credit. So, yeah.

Paul: So, who were the leaders of the team back when you first came in?

Charlie: Well, Lee Roy Jordan ran the defense, as middle linebacker. And Cornell Green would be in charge of the secondary. And Bob Lilly was a quiet, great performer. Offensive side of the ball was Roger, of course. And Dan Reeves was the coach, the player/coach for a while and then he ended up being a NFL head coach. I really wish that Dan would’ve taken over the offense. Coach Landry handled both sides of the ball. I mean, nobody does that. He was the only coach in the history of the NFL that handled both sides of the ball. He worked his tail off, and he had an idea for all of it.

He had me for life, and he was really a good person. A smart person.

Paul: Tell me about the bicycle built for two. For you and Cliff

Charlie: Is that goofy or what?

A bicycle built for two! Photo courtesy the internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

Paul: I’m sitting there going, ‘I can just about guarantee these two boys there did not buy that bike!’

Charlie: (laughs) No, they did not! It was some kind of cover shot, they brought the bike.

Paul: That was pretty good, I like that one.

So also, you were an expert at one other thing, there. A lot of other people forget, and that’s holding for extra points.

Charlie: Yeah. Extra points field goals, yeah. I did it for 10 years.

Coach Landry, he just knew that I cared, and I was a perfectionist in everything. And I was so damn serious about the game, techniques, and detail stuff. And holding for extra points for field goals is an absolute thankless job and you only get attention when you drop it. I think I lost one of them in the 10 years that I held, and that was it. I think I missed just one fumble, and it was in a playoff game against Atlanta. And I thought the game was gonna be determined because of my drop the extra point. But it didn’t. It just affected the bettors. It was a three point line, and if we made the extra point, we covered the line, but it didn’t. So, I got hate letters in the mail.

Paul: Oh, no.

Charlie: Accusing me of throwing the game. It’s all your fault!

Coach Landry makes an announcement, because all the kickers at training camp when I’m with Tony Fritsch who’s our kicker from Germany. And he said, after about a week of practice some of the kickers like to have the ball placed in a certain way, other kickers another way. He says from now on, everybody holds the same way for each kicker. If we do it the same way every time for everybody, then it becomes a moot factor.

The next day after Coach Landry did that in front of the whole team, we get ready to do the field goal drill, we get ready to warm up around the back of 12 yard line. Tony comes up to the spot – I had my finger down on the ground, and he comes up to me, and he puts his foot there right by the spot, and he speaks through his helmet, ‘a little more angle’. Coach Landry is 12 feet behind us, and he’s hearing everything. Tony could barely speak English, and I’m going, what in the f*** am I gonna do, because I knew Tony was the best kicker we had. Landry watches me hold at Tony’s angle, so he understood, he didn’t say anything. I thought that was one of the funniest stories I’ve ever told.

I played two more years after my knee surgery, but let me tell you, I was playing with a handicap. It was difficult. I was playing with my brain alone. They didn’t know how to fix an anterior cruciate back then, and they sure didn’t fix mine very well because I was only able to play another two years.

+++End of Part One. We pick up the next morning +++

Charlie Waters, Cowboy Safety, 1975. Photo courtesy the internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

Charlie: Hey, good morning, Paul.

Paul: Hey, Charlie. How are you doing, buddy?

Charlie: Doing all right. How about yourself?

Paul: Very good, thanks for asking.

I’m just going to kind of pick up where we were yesterday. Now I did have a question for you. I keep seeing this four blocked punts in a single game. Is that correct?

Charlie: No, not in a single game. Four blocked punts in two separate games. Back to back. Two in one game and then two, the next game.

Paul: Makes more sense. But still, darn incredible.

Charlie: So, I guess you could say I’m making up a stat, but that doesn’t fill the slots because I blocked two punts at the end of the season against the Los Angeles Rams, when we lost the game. I had an interception, 10 tackles, and two blocked punts. It was against Los Angeles in the playoff game. And then, the very first game, next year, preseason game, I blocked two punts, again. Now that doesn’t mean squat because you don’t get to count the preseason games. But to me, I mean, it is still the same feat, to have accomplished something that radical. But, anyway, it’s back-to-back games. Two and then two.

Paul: I was trying to figure out how in world a coach wouldn’t adjust to that with the up back or something.

Charlie: What are they doing? Don’t they want to block me? You’d think they’d try to block me.

Paul: I was sitting there thinking that special teams coach didn’t have a job the next day.

Charlie: That’s exactly right. The next year, there’s another coach.

Paul: I would have put the three upbacks on you. To heck with everybody else.

Charlie: (Laughs) Well you had Thomas Henderson on the inside. And man, those guys were ferocious, so they had to collapse down on them.

Coach Landry and Ed ‘Too Tall’ Jones… yep, Coach is smiling. Photo courtesy the internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

Paul: Oh, you had Too Tall in the middle.

Charlie: Yeah.

Paul: That’s right, because, mean, he just stuck his paw up there and he blocked a couple of them.

Charlie: Yeah, he used to block field goals. He never block the punts. But Gene Stallings is the person that taught me how to block a punt.

Paul: Tell me!

Charlie: Gene Stallings, my defensive back coordinator, from Texas A&M. He was my position coach for 10 years, and I loved him to death. He was a great, great coach. And he even went on to be a head coach at St. Louis.

So, he taught me how to – We used to have a punt-blocking exercise, which is really coming for the punter. It’s really coming for the punter, because he is probably going to get hit a couple of times. But basically, the thought pattern that he wanted us to feel and try to accomplish was you don’t try to time up swinging at the ball. You just come in there and reach your hands out and keep them out straight. And it’s a simple little thing, but we practiced it and we practiced it. And I did it pretty good, when I blocked the punt, but I had such great timing on it. I was there, and I knew I was going to get it.

It’s the same way with trying to knock a pass down. He always used to tell us, “Just reach. Just reach. The ball is going to bounce off your hand, and it’s going to be incomplete. You don’t have to slap it down. And that takes timing to try to swing it.” So, I mean, all these little things were just fascinating to me. I love all those little techniques.

Paul: It’s a science.

Charlie: – Yeah, a science. Sure.

Ernie Stautner, one very intense coach. Courtesy EBay. Photo courtesy the internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

Paul: So, tell me a little bit about Ernie Stautner.

Charlie: Ernie was a tough, tough guy, but I really had a lot of respect for him because he was almost crippled, about right at the end of my career. His knees were so bad, and he’d been beat up so much. His hands were just gnarly and everything. But he was really good at stopping the run. And Coach Landry is the one – Coach Landry designed the flex defense to stop the run. And Ernie Stautner, he just was an extension of Tom Landry about the little details.

And, of course, he was a stickler for all kind of details when it came to steps. I don’t know if you’ve seen any– if you’ve ever done any kind of studying of the flex defense, but the guy that’s in the crouch position that’s about two yards off the ball? He actually reads the offensive linemen, not the one blocking on him, but both of them, the one blocking on him and the one nearest. If he’s in the gap, he has to read them both.

And that changes what he does. If the guy tries to block down on him, then he’ll loop around him. And it had everybody baffled. And we always had a lineman free, it seemed. And then, all my job was, as strong safety position, was one, turn the play in. I had to get the fullback or guard. And regardless of if it’s a 100-pound difference in size I still had to turn the play in.

And then, – in some defenses, Thomas Henderson would turn the play in. Or my strong side linebacker would turn the play in and I’d be the one that was designated to be the tackle. So, we were actually playing an eight-man front mainly because of Cliff Harris. Coach Landry designed defenses that had Cliff responsible for a gap on the weak side, a free safety.

Having a gap on the weak side of the formation. Yeah it’s fascinating when he did it. And then, I would become the free safety from the strong safety position, so we can see that being different. The offensive team thinks that with the linebacker being outside, that I’m going to be the one plugging the gap between the tackle and the tight end, but it wouldn’t be me, it’d be the defensive end and Cliff would cover an extra hole on the other side open and it would be Cliff Harris at that gap. He weighed 186 pounds and he knocked the s*** out of me, I’m telling you. He killed me. Anyway, Landry was the first eight-man front. Nobody gives him credit for that but I do, I recognize it.

Thomas destroys the Denver offense in the Super Bowl. Photo courtesy the internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

Paul: So, I talked to Thomas Henderson, told him I was going to be interviewing you, he said to remind you, “Charlie played off my hip. He once called me a gazelle.”

Charlie: Yeah, when he ran that kick-off back against Los Angeles, he looked like a gazelle. He looked more like an animal than he looked like a human being. He had such a great stride and his legs were so powerful. And he had such great rhythm. He knocked down a lot of balls. The other thing that really disturbed me about Thomas is he was such a better athlete than everybody else, or anyone who’s just a better football player than anybody else. He actually should have been playing the weak side linebacker position because the weak side linebacker rushes a lot more than the strong side linebacker does. And the weak side linebacker doesn’t have anybody over him.

Paul: No tight end

Charlie: Exactly. Where Thomas is at, he has to fight through the tight end. We did have some blitzes and anytime we used a blitz I ensure you I know that that ball is going to come out of the quarterback’s hand at a certain time because Thomas is going to be there. That’s why I got a lot of kicks. I just gambled, thinking that we were going to have pass rush. And we did.

I know this, I wasn’t sure that Thomas was going to know all the details, the schemes, because he was a little bit kooky during the week. I used to always reassure him what his job was, just before the ball was snapped and he’d nod his head. He never turned around and looked at me, couldn’t do that because they might snap it, but I would get close enough to him and let him know, okay, contain the outside, turn the play in, let’s rush the gap. Close up the tight end, and then we’ll run a trail technique on the tight end. Those kind of things.

Paul: Kind of reaffirm it.

Charlie: It didn’t bother him that I did that, I think it may give him a sense of security that he’s got a job to do and we all have a job to do and it’s all of us on defense or we don’t play. So, you must make the play if you do not do exactly what your job is.

Paul: Thomas really spoke highly of you. He really did.

Charlie: And I think a lot of him, I think he’s a really, really good person. He just was a little bit full of himself back in the day and I understand why.

He was bigger, faster, and stronger than everybody. He could jump, he could leap, that’s why he was more like a gazelle than a scat cat. I loved him, he had a great attitude and he didn’t give a crap about what the other people thought about him. He played his ass off on every play.

Paul: What more can you ask?

Tell me a little bit about Roger Staubach, the man, the myth.

Charlie: It’s every bit of it is true. A myth is something that’s fantasy, but it’s not with him. I remember the first game that brought us from behind against San Francisco. It might have been 1973, I was still playing corner. We were three touchdowns behind, and Roger got hurt in preseason. So, he sat out every game. And then, Craig (Morton) had a bad game against San Francisco and Roger came in off the bench and scored three touchdowns in four minutes. I might be exaggerating a little bit but that was the beginning of it. And we all started believing.

Roger Staubach and Charlie Waters in charity ball game. Photo courtesy the internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

From the defensive point of view, we used to say this in the huddle all the time, ‘get the fricking ball back to Roger. Just get it back. He will win it.’ We all believed it. I’m sure the offensive guys were excited like heck to play with him because he scrambled and saved so many plays. He had sometime make audibles on his own, so he was really smart at doing that. He could read defenses before the ball was snapped. Most quarterbacks look at the middle linebacker to figure out what the defense is, and the line, so the guard could get the call to the office lineman about what technique they’re going to use. But Roger did a good job of recognizing exactly what the other team’s intentions were. That’s why Coach Landry used to always tell us to disguise our intentions.

I used to give a lot of fake hand signals to my guys. It was just to throw the other team off in case they started getting them.

One of our defenses was a 40 defense, which means man-to-man, free safety, strong side rush, one-man rush with box force, which means Thomas Henderson would be box forcing it. When I played corner I could not see the backs.

We had defenses set up based on what the back field positions were. My strong safety, Cornell, he had plenty on his plate at that time, he didn’t need me to be bugging him.

But I couldn’t tell if it was a split formation from the Corner, we called it the Brown formation with the fullback in line, the quarterback, and back on the weak side. It would change based on my technique and the defense we were playing.

I used to turn to the corners and make sure they knew what the defense was. And we changed it up every once in a while just in case the offense started monitoring the calls.

Paul: I had no idea you would change defending on the fullback setup.

Now we all know how the Redskins were about picking that spy stuff.

Charlie: Yes, they were the Evil Empire. The worst thing they did was there was a hotel behind our practice field, a motel.

I think it was the Motel 6. We weren’t paranoid or anything, but the Cowboys used to rent all the rooms in that hotel for a week when we prepared for the Redskins. At the end of the week we would drive a bus down to the Cotton Bowl and practice at the Cotton Bowl for the last few days of the week.

Paul: There’s something I didn’t know. I will add that to our Cowboy timeline.

Charlie: We would do that against the Redskins because we knew they were caught many times trying to spy on us.

Paul: Sure. Like you said, the Evil Empire

Charlie: What, me worry? (Laughs)

Paul: Oh my God!

Okay, so tell me about the end of your career with the Cowboys. I know you were hurting like crazy back then.

Charlie: The 10th year in the league I was on my game. My best year in the league was the year before and I was really strong and played around – I was around 6′ 2″, 198. Now I’m 5′ 11″.

Lets you know how many head-on collisions I had.

My 10th year in the league in the preseason game against Seattle I stepped on a landmine out there on their artificial turf in a preseason game, that lets you know how hard I was going, even in a preseason game. I planted with my right foot and torqued my body to the left because I was chasing after a tight end and an explosion went off in my knee and I knew it, I tore my anterior cruciate (ACL) and I had to sit out the season and it almost killed me. I did the radio broadcast with Brad (Sham) several times.

Roger ‘Captain Comeback’ Staubach scalping the Redskin Defense. Photo courtesy the internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

That was when the comeback that Roger made against the Redskins in Dallas. I was in the booth that game. Brad said, “Charlie, surely this game’s over.” I said, “Brad, Roger Staubach is our quarterback. Just get the ball back. You’ve got to believe. If you don’t believe you’re not going to make any of your dreams come true.” And sure enough, we get the ball back and he throws a touchdown pass to Tony Hill in the end zone. It was one second to go or something and that was his legacy.

He could win a game with his feet but he could also win a game with his moxie and his never say die.

Paul: Oh, he’s a guy you wanted on your team.

Charlie: We just felt so good with him in there. We had a rotation of Roger and Craig one year where they would go in and out on every play, and that was difficult for us on defense.

Paul: Were you there when Clint Longley did his famous ‘punch and run’?

Charlie: Yes, I witnessed it. Yeah, I saw it all.

Paul: From what I understand, he had everything packed up and ready to go after he sucker punched him.

Charlie: Yeah. I had lunch with him the day before and I was trying to calm him down because he and Roger got in a tussle on the practice field in the pre-practice warm-up and we had to go break it up.

Defensive guys had to go break it up. That lets you know what a competitor Roger was.

But Clint had some skills, he had a really nice way of looking one way and throwing the other. He was real good at that one position. But yeah, I had lunch with Clint the day before. He said, “You know, I figured out how to get traded.” I said, “How are you going to do it?” He said, “You’ll find out.”

Paul: Oh, no.

Charlie: He wouldn’t tell me. I was trying to pick his brain about how he was going to handle this because he got in the fight with Roger at the beginning of practice, I told you that. We knew there was bad blood there and Roger wasn’t going to back down.

Paul: Do you know what the fight was about? Was it just a fight because he was the backup?

Charlie: Clint didn’t feel like he was getting the respect. And Roger, he can step on a person and that’s it. That’s what Roger’s like. He goes for the throat. He was great at holding his position for all those years, even though he wasn’t the ‘consummate quarterback’ for pros because he ran so damn much. He had a separated shoulder that year when he came back from San Francisco. He tried to run over Marlin McKeever, linebacker for the Rams. And he just dislocated his right shoulder. He tried to run over him in the open field and I’m like, “You idiot.”

Paul: Oh, geez.

Clint Longley, The Mad Bomber. Photo courtesy the internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

Charlie: Anyway, sure enough in the locker room, when Roger got on the scales to weigh and he was looking down at the scales, Clint sucker-punched him.

Paul: Oh, man.

Charlie: I went chasing him. He had already left. He already had his bags packed and everything.

Paul: Totally premeditated.

Charlie: Yes, exactly.

Paul: Of all the people to punch and then trying to get traded because of that. Did he actually get traded or did he get cut? Do you remember?

Charlie: We might’ve got some compensation for him. I don’t know what it was. That wouldn’t make it a trade, but if he got cut or released, then there would be no, I’m unsure of that.

(On August 30, 1976, after a training room incident in which Clint Longley sucker-punched Roger Staubach during the 1976 preseason, the team suspended and eventually traded him to the San Diego Chargers along with a first round draft pick (#24-Bob Rush), in exchange for a first (#14-Steve August) and second draft choice (#41-Terry Beeson). The Cowboys used those two picks and two other picks to eventually land the No. 2 overall pick in the 1977 draft, selecting Tony Dorsett. Courtesy Wiki)

Charlie: He had potential, he was really, really good against some defenses, as I told you. He could look me off and throw to the other side.

You know that one game that when Roger got knocked out.

Paul: He did great. Thanksgiving day 1974 against the Redskins. We were trailing in the second half, Roger went down, I think he threw a couple of TDs before he hit Drew Pearson with about half a minute left in the game for a 50-yard hail mary TD

Charlie: Oh my God. He could move the ball down the field. Those linebackers didn’t come at him because they didn’t see, they didn’t know where he was going to throw the ball. I mean, he wouldn’t look them off.

Paul: Sure.

Charlie: I understand that. Because I was a quarterback and also I understand it, because I used to stare right in quarterback eyes, try to guess what he’s doing.

Paul: Right. You couldn’t do that with Cliff.

Charlie: This guy had a special knack for intermediate to short pass and he also had a nice judgment of how fast everything went.

Charlie with Danny White, Tony Dorsett, Harvey Martin and Larry Cole on Family Feud taking on the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders. Photo courtesy the internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

Paul: Lets, talk a little bit about post football here. Well, first of all, I’m going to kind of go back in time a little bit. We haven’t touched on your better half, Rosie. Now Rosie has been just always a stunningly beautiful woman. So, tell me a little bit about how you guys met.

Rosie Holotik Playboy cover. Courtesy Playboy magazine.

Charlie: I helped pay for an advert for a motion picture. It was, in a horror movie. It was called “Don’t Look in the Basement”. You could still get it online. Rosie was starring in it. It was built by a company here in Dallas. She was nervous and it was a horror film. I owned a small piece of a restaurant called the Handle Bar restaurant.

So, we offered to have a party to push this new movie that was coming out at our spot. All Dallas, all people who texted us, all people started. It were from Texas. There were players that were in it. Some, a couple of guys where really big because they were, they wanted people being very dramatic. So, I met Rosie there and I fell in love with her. That moment, that day, that night, I don’t know what she thought about me. Who is this guy!

“Don’t Look in the Basement” movie poster. Photo courtesy the internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

Paul: (Laughs) Who does he think he is?

Charlie: No, she didn’t know that I was a football player. I know that.

Paul: Really?

Charlie: Not at first she researched me, just like I researched her. I had been waiting a long time for someone like this to come into my life.

Paul: You where smitten.

Charlie: I was smitten. She could sing, dance, she was on Broadway. She performed on Broadway, she was all over, into their model magazine and she’s still very pretty.

Paul: Absolutely

Charlie appearing in an ad for Ken’s Menswear, 1982. Photo courtesy Charlie Waters

Charlie: Let me go back real quick and then remember where you are right in that highlight the interesting thing about me telling, if you’re in the collection, you’ve mentioned, we don’t do exactly what the defense wants. You damn sure better make the play.

Paul: Right, because you’re on an Island.

Charlie: Against Minnesota before the Hail Mary passed, I dodged it back. I went on the sidelines and asked Gene if I could dodge it back because we both knew what the play was going to be, because they had done the exact same. It was third and two before. This was third and one before and it’s, I guess, third and two. We just knew that he was successful the time before. So, we just knew that he was going to do the exact same play.

Paul: Exactly.

Charles: Just let me try to juke the fullback because they think I’m just going to stand up there and turn the play in like I always do. And he got first down last time they did that. When he does it, I think I can juke that guy, Gene. I don’t know if you can pay attention to early in the film, but Gene said – He looked me in the eyes and he looked at as all sober. He said, “Well, hell Charles, if you don’t make the play, we’re both going to get fired.”

Nobody remembers that. Nobody remembered that play. It’s just a typical unsung hero type of person that happens with me. Not very much credit.

Paul: I love that kind of stuff. And to me it’s so much more than the guy that makes the long touchdown or anything. It’s that unsung guy. The guys up front too, that make that play and they make that stop. And it’s maybe half a yard gain. And then, the next play it’s a half a yard short of a first down. It’s because of that play before, when he stopped him for half a yard gain. You know? So, all these things, they all add up. That’s why it takes 10 yards to get a first down. All these little plays all the – Sorry I’m preaching there.

Charles: Somebody had to jump on the grenade.

So, well, I was going to say the last two years of our career after I had that interior cruciate, I came back and Cliff retired. And so, my last two years, he played 10 years I played 12, so that’s where they used the thing they called Charlie’s Angels. Which had four rookies in the backfield, Everson Walls who was a free agent.

Paul: Oh yeah, Cubby.

Charles: Dennis Thurman. Yeah, Cubby. What a stud. Dennis Thurman was playing for me and a guy named Ron Fellows, we just called him Tweety Bird because he was so skinny. But I had all young kids back here, and here I was 11 or 12-year veteran. I played all the positions.

I knew exactly what they’re supposed to do. They depended on me and I loved it. I loved that responsibility. Maybe it’s a frustrated way of exercising my quarterback. We sure had a lot of responsibilities, but I took it on and I enjoyed it. I really did. And we had a great two years.

It ended with the catch at San Francisco –

Paul: Dwight Clark. Yikes!

Charles: Clay pellets poured out onto the field to soak up the mushy field that Candlestick had. Candlestick Park, it’s under the ground level of water.

So, it’s just always mushy, but really mushy this game. So, then they painted in green and you painted white on there.

Paul: Oh boy.

Charles: They had the whole field like that. And so, when I looked around and I saw the play, and Dwight Clark make the catch – It was not Everson’s fault by the way, it was somebody else’s fault.

I remember falling to my knees, and dropping down face first onto the field, because my career was over.

Paul: Oh, wow.

Charles: And I thought I was getting in my career and getting most valuable player at the Superbowl.

You got to think big, right?

Paul: Sure.

Charles: So, I ended my career with my face buried in green kitty litter. That’s a line for ya right there!

“So, I ended my career with my face buried in green kitty litter.”

Charlie Waters

Paul: Who was the free safety for you that last two years?

Charles: Michael Downs.

Paul: Oh yeah, that’s right.

Charles: Yeah. A kid from down here, right here in South Dallas or something like that. Everson was raised right here in Dallas.

Paul: Right. Hamilton Park.

Charles: Hamilton Park, yeah.

Paul: I know Cubby a little bit. So, did you know, you remember, Beasley Reece by chance?

Charles: Oh sure.

Paul: We were in Boy Scouts together in Waco.

Charles: What a good guy. He’s such a good guy.

Paul: Yeah. I know. I think, he’s in Philly now, if I remember correctly.

Charles: Is he coaching?

Paul: No, he was doing some sports casting or something up there.

Charles: Oh, that’s right. I remember that.

I hope he’s doing well and very successful. He deserves it.

With all these conversations Paul, you going to write a book? What are you going to do?

Paul: No, just one interview. If you’ve read any of the ones we’ve done, I like to find out more about the person and even football stuff.

Now, you auditioned for Channel 4, sportscaster at one point, didn’t you?

Charles: Yeah.

Paul: How’d that go?

Charles: It didn’t go very well. Let me just say about my time as a sportscaster, whatever it’s called. Did it for two years. Tom Brookshier was my play by play guy.

Paul: Solid announcer.

Charles: Tom Brookshier was a colorful character. He was in front of me under Pat Sommerall.

Paul: Yes.

Charles: They split them up and he became a play by play guy. And he was my play by play guy, and he was doing more color than I would do. And we were doing a game at Philadelphia on the road and they were talking about some corner, some black corner, and Tom said, “You know, he probably doesn’t have an IQ greater than a decimal point but he can damn sure play football.” And the telephone rang in our booth and they fired his butt on the spot.

Paul: Holy cow.

Charlie: And I didn’t have nothing to do with it.

Here’s the other thing I didn’t like about doing that stuff, they just threw you out there and if you did well, great. If you are not a natural, you’re gone.

So, what does a guy have to depend on to be successful in this game of football? It’s preparation. Study. Learn. Do it the right way. Take no prisoners.

Paul: Sure.

Charlie: You know? The credit belongs to the person that’s in the arena. It’s not the people that criticize them. So, if they would have just had a couple people giving him some, “Watch the film with me.” But they wouldn’t do it. They just gave it a shot and it didn’t take.

They knew I knew a lot about football and used to compliment me a lot off the air. He say, “You really know a lot about what’s going on.”

We might have been able to pull out of it but why they gave me a newbie, what do you call it? A newbie play by play guy. Why don’t they give me somebody that –

Tom was actually first year’s play by play guy and he went back to doing college. He was a very colorful person.

Tom Brookshier and Pat Summerall. Photo courtesy the internet included in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

Pat Summerall. They were great. If I had Pat Summerall, I would have done a little bit better. You think Tony Romo is doing good because he’s Tony Romo? He knows an awful lot about stuff and he has the gift of gab.

He’s just a colorful stuff, but he’s got the best play by play guy in the world.

Paul: Yeah.

Charlie: He’s got no excuses.

Paul: What do you think about Troy.

Charlie: No excuses. Yeah. I like Troy. Good announcer.

Paul: So, you went to Denver as a coach.

Charlie: Yeah. I remember in the 80s, the real estate market went to hell in a hand basket and I was in the real estate business at that time, and had a lot of success. A lot of success. And then, it went south. And Dan Reeves always told me, he said, “Look, any time you want to get into coaching…”

Coach Landry offered me a job right when I retired. He said, “But I want you to take this personality test.” And I went, “Excuse me?” I was kind of – I was a little bit taken aback by that because I played with him for 12 years. He knew my work habits and how much I would study. And he wants me to take a personality test to find out what kind of person I am? After 12 years? And my pride got in the way and I really, really made a mistake right there. I should have gone and coached because now, with that staff that we had, and just all the stability and all the winning and all the history and I didn’t do it. I was too prideful. And I regret that.

Steve Atwater listens to advice from Coach Charlie Waters during Broncos practice inside the bubble on May 16, 1989. Courtesy John Leyba, Denver Post file

So, when Dan Reeves told me, he pulled me aside and said, “Look, if you ever want to get into the coaching business again, or if you want to try to get into coaching, just give me a call. I’ll make a spot for you.” He did. I became a co-kicking team coach with Mike Nolan. Mike was at Denver for seven years. Loved him. Great guy.

Paul: And Mike was your coach at Dallas?

Charlie: His dad did. His dad, that’s where he got his IT.

Paul: That’s right, Dick Nolan.

Charlie: Dick Nolan. Mike has got the pedigree. He coached a lot of other places but I don’t think he came to Dallas ever.

And the only time I coached with him was at Denver. I coached seven years and then I got fired with Wade (Phillips) as head coach and I was defensive coordinator. Difficult times.

So, then I took a job at University of Oregon, I was the defensive coordinator. And I loved it. I really, really enjoyed working at the University kids because they’re they are young and eager. They knew I had pedigree and they knew that I knew what I was talking about and I made them better and they were good.

Number 2 in the nation, number 1 in Pac-10.

Cody and Charlie Waters, courtesy Charlie Waters and St. Marist

At then at the end of the season, before we were going to go to the bowl game, my son died in his sleep.

Paul: Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry.

Charlie: He was 18 years old. Two weeks before his 18th birthday. And I don’t know how I coached the game because the game was like seven days away or 10 days away. I obviously didn’t coach very good, we got killed.

It was the hardest thing I’ve ever had to deal with, ever. And I dealt with a lot of stuff as far as personal issues.

Beyond comparison. Yeah. You just don’t know. There’s a Chinese proverb, well actually a Chinese character, you know those little characters they draw?

Paul: Sure.

Charlie: And the symbol for perseverance is a dagger and a heart intertwined together and you spend the rest of your life, when you lose a child, you spend the rest of your life with a dagger lodged in your heart. I I think about it every day.

That’s what happened. We lost the Cotton Bowl and we moved back to Dallas.

My wife told me, she said, “Look, we got to get back to Texas.” Where all my family is. It was killing her.

And so, we came back here and I kind of straggled around trying to figure out what’s going on in the world.

Paul: So sorry for your loss. Sounds like a great kid.

Charlie: Cliff Harris was starting a new company with Kelsey Warren called Energy Transfer. So, they invited me to be part of it, which was great. Ray Davis, the guy that owns the Rangers. He and Kelsey offered me a job.

Ray was co-founder of Energy Transfer and of course Energy Transfer is very, very, very successful. So, I work with Cliff again. Crazy.

Paul: What a great friend. They’re rare. They really are.

Charlie: They’re rare.

Paul: Tell me about the Animal House.

Charlie: Ah, we called it the ‘Animal Farm’. Named after the book.

Paul: George Orwell!

Charlie: I had married my college sweetheart my rookie year. In a few years, I got a divorce and that’s when I bought the Animal Farm which was on Fair Oaks between Skillman and Abrams.

Paul: Oh, wow.

Charlie: And I drive by it every day.

It was an old house. Still there. Right there at one of the roads that cut through the ridge out there.

It was a great business deal because I knew a little bit about it, so. It was zoned for multi-family. It is still a single, three-bedroom home. Four of us lived there. Like Animal Farm. We had lots of animals – Mike Montgomery was one of my buddies that played with the Cowboys. He would come over an awful lot. Rex Kirby was an Animal Farm original. A girl named Fran lived with us too. And Phil Weir. And it was all crazy.

I just saw Phil this past week.

Paul: In Aspen?

Charlie: Yeah. In Glenwood Springs. Close to Aspen, yeah.

Phil’s genuinely a good person.

Paul: Yeah, I like Phil a lot man. Very helpful with a lot of things here.

Charlie: We used to play a game called Roofball where you get a volleyball and leave it on top of the roof. We had a single-family ranch house. So, a two-man team volleyball as it rolls off the roof. You can either hit it or let it bounce, get it, kind of like tennis. And we played our ass off. We had a gym, 10 station – I forgot what they called those gyms back then.

Paul: Like a universal gym?

Charlie: Universal gym. Exactly what it was.

Paul: Yeah.

Charlie: I was in shape. Unbelievable what I was doing. All the working out that I did. I really dedicated myself to becoming a professional. I knew that my time was coming to be strong safety someday soon, so I needed a lot more bulk. And I got. Bought my own damn gym.

Paul: Yeah. Well you know that Bob Ward’s brother, Frank – that was the guy that developed Universal Gym. All the stuff for Universal, that equipment; that was a Frank Ward product.

Charlie: Wow.

Paul: There you go. The Ward family helped you again.

Charlie: Bob Ward is a big reason why I had success. He changed the way I thought about stuff so he’s really special.

Paul: I met him three or four times when Frank was around there. Very innovative guy. I remember I think he was so much like that Tom House, I believe it was, for the Rangers. That had him throwing footballs instead of throwing the baseball. Odd things that weren’t quite the same motion. Crazy.

Charlie: Right. When I was coaching the defensive backs, I used to throw tennis balls at them. Because tennis balls bounce off your hands.

Paul: Sure.

Charlie: You have to give a little when you catch it.

Paul: Oh.

Charlie: Somebody taught that to me. I think my brother taught that to me. He’d toss them where he used to fire them at me as hard as he could, and I’d catch them. If they bounced off your hands, then you’re going to drop that football eventually.

It was quite the coaching technique.

Paul: Is there anything that you would like for me to add to this, that nobody’s asked? I can’t imagine too many questions haven’t been asked from you.

Charlie: This is pretty thorough based on how many times I’ve been interviewed. I guess this is the most thorough interview ever as a matter of fact. I’ve gone into personal stuff nobody every asked.

Paul: Well thank you, we like to get more of the story! Tell Rosie hello for me.

Charlie: Absolutely! I will say this about Rosie. The one thing was that she was very professional. She was always about her business. That helped me in my professionalism. She taught me a lot. I might have been a little lax, having lived at the Animal Farm.

Well, Paul. Thank you very much for your time.

Paul: Absolutely.

Charlie: And all your patience. Telling war stories.

Paul: Folks love to hear these, it was a great time to be a Cowboy but also to be a Cowboy fan.

Charlie: Okay, thank you.

Paul: If you ever need anything, holler at me.

Charlie: Okay. All right, Paul. Thank you very much, sir. That was fun.

Paul: All right, sir. Have a good day.

Charlie: Bye.

Charlie Waters, Courtesy Dallas Cowboys Weekly, 1983

“Yeah, it’s amazing,” says Charlie Waters, leaning back in his patio chair. “Even now I can be off in the backwoods somewhere and when somebody recognizes who I am they’ll say, ’Oh yeah. Charlie Waters. Yeah, I remember that Harold Jackson game.”
Charlie smiles his boyish smile. “Yeah, I guess I’ve had a pretty weird career. It’s never far from chicken salad to chicken s**t…”
courtesy DMagazine, December 1977

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